* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [Call to Order] [00:00:06] GOOD EVENING, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. THANK YOU FOR JOINING US FOR THE AUGUST 19TH, UH, BOARD OF SUPERVISORS MEETING. AND I'M LOOKING OUT HERE AND I'M SEEING A HUGE CROWD. HOW NICE IT IS TO SEE YOU ALL HERE THIS EVENING. I CAN'T IMAGINE WHY, BUT I HAVE A FEELING THAT THERE'S SOMETHING THERE. OKAY, I'LL CALL THE MEETING TO ORDER. ROLL CALL PLEASE. MR. HORO. PRESENT MRS. NOLL? HERE. MR. DREWRY. PRESENT. MR. ROHN? HERE, MR. SHEPHERD. HERE. MADAM CHAIRMAN, YOU HAVE A QUORUM. UH, THIS EVENING WE HAVE PASTOR DOUG ECKELS, BETHEL BAPTIST BAPTIST CHURCH TO GIVE THE INVOCATION. GOOD TO SEE YOU, MRS. NOEL AND BOARD OF SUPERVISORS, THANK YOU FOR THIS OPPORTUNITY. SHALL WE PRAY TOGETHER. HEAVENLY FATHER, WE COME BEFORE YOU TONIGHT WITH GRATEFUL HEARTS. WE RECOGNIZE YOU AS OUR CREATOR AND OUR SUSTAINER AND OUR REDEEMER. YOU ARE THE GIVER OF WISDOM, THE SOURCE OF TRUTH, AND THE ONE WHO CARES DEEPLY ABOUT EVERY PERSON IN OUR COMMUNITY. LORD, WE THANK YOU FOR THESE MEN AND WOMEN WHO HAVE BEEN ENTRUSTED WITH LEADERSHIP ON THIS BOARD OF SUPERVISORS. WE ASK THAT YOU BLESS THEM WITH CLEAR MINDS, DISCERNING HEARTS, AND THE COURAGE TO DO WHAT IS RIGHT. FATHER, WE KNOW THAT LEADERSHIP IS NOT EASY. THE WEIGHT OF DECISIONS CAN BE HEAVY, THE VOICES OF CONCERN MANY AND THE NEEDS OF THE PEOPLE. GREAT. SO TONIGHT I ASK THAT YOU MAY GRANT EACH SUPERVISOR PATIENCE AND LISTENING, HUMILITY IN SERVING, AND STRENGTH TO PERSEVERE. WHEN CHALLENGES ARISE, MAY THEIR WORK BE MARKED BY FAIRNESS, COMPASSION, AND A TRUE DESIRE TO PROMOTE THE WELLBEING OF ALL. LORD, WE LIFT UP TO YOU OUR COMMUNITY TONIGHT, THE FAMILIES, THE POLICE AND FIRST RESPONDERS, THE STUDENTS, THE ELDERLY, AND THE VULNERABLE. AS OUR CHILDREN GO BACK TO SCHOOL NEXT WEEK, WE PRAY FOR THE BUS DRIVERS, THE TEACHERS, THE ADMINISTRATORS, THE PARENTS, AND THE STUDENTS THAT YOU WOULD SURROUND THEM WITH YOUR PROTECTION AND YOUR PROVISION. FINALLY, LORD, I PRAY THAT EVERYTHING THAT IS SAID AND DONE IN THIS MEETING TONIGHT WILL BE GUIDED BY INTEGRITY, RESPECT, AND DESIRE TO HONOR YOU. WE PRAY YOUR BLESSING ON THIS GATHERING, ON THIS COMMUNITY, AND ON THE LEADERS THAT SERVE. IT'S IN THE NAME OF JESUS OUR SAVIOR, WE PRAY. AMEN. AMEN. THANK YOU. PLEASE STAND FOR THE PLEASURE OF ALLEGIANCE. OUR LEDGE, ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG IN THE UNITED STATES, STATES OF AMERICA, AND TO THE REPUBLIC ALL STANDS. ONE. NATION. NATION. UNDER GOD. UNDER GOD. INDIVISIBLE. INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY, JUSTICE, WRONG. THANK YOU. PLEASE BE SEATED. OKAY. UH, UH, WE HAVE A LOT OF PRESENTATIONS AS YOU ALL CAN IMAGINE. I'M GONNA GO BY THE SCRIPT, SO I DON'T REALLY MAKE A MISTAKE, BUT I PROBABLY WILL. OKAY. I'LL CALL [1. Volunteer Service Recognition: Recognition of a volunteer who has provided 20 years of dedicated service and commitment to York County] HIM MR. HURST BOARD. UH, CODE, UH, APPEALS FOR 20 YEARS WORKING FOR THE COUNTY. SEE? IS THAT THE ALL THE WAY AT THE END? COME JOIN ME UP HERE. 20 YEARS. WHAT MADE YOU STAY SO LONG? , NOTHING ELSE TO DO. , BUT, BUT, BUT YOU KNOW, I, BOARD OF CODE AND APPEALS. I MEAN, THAT'S REALLY A, A DIFFICULT JOB, ISN'T IT? SOMETIMES? OR DO YOU HAVE A SENSE OF HUMOR THAT YOU CAN GET THROUGH IT? SOMETIMES? IT'S PRETTY GOOD. THEY, THE, UH, INSPECTORS DO A GOOD JOB KEEPING PEOPLE STRAIGHT. SO THEY DO, WE DON'T HAVE MUCH TO DO. HAVE, SO YOU DON'T HAVE TOO MUCH TO DO. THAT'S RIGHT. WELL, I DON'T BELIEVE THAT FOR A MINUTE, BUT ANYWAY, I HAVE FLOWERS FOR YOU AND I HAVE A YOUR COUNTY CHARGE CARD COIN. OH, CHARGE CARD. THAT, THAT'S IT. NO, NO. NOT A CHARGE CARD. IT'S A CHARGE COIN. BUT YOU KNOW, IF, YOU KNOW, IF YOU USE THAT, IF YOU DON'T HAVE IT WITH YOU AND SOMEONE ASKS YOU IF YOU HAVE IT, YOU GOTTA BUY DRINKS. SO YOU BETTER KEEP IT IN YOUR POCKET ALL THE TIME. BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY, IT IS A CERTIFICATE APPRECIATION FOR ALL THE TIME AND ALL THE WORK THAT YOU'VE DONE FOR THE COUNTY. THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH. THANK YOU. YOU'RE WELCOME. OKAY, [00:05:03] . OKAY. ANY COMMENTS FROM THE BOARD? OKAY. I THINK I PROBABLY SAID TOO MUCH AS IT IS ALREADY. CONGRATULATIONS AND THANKS FOR STAYING LONG. CONGRATULATIONS, MA'AM. WE APPRECIATE YOUR SERVICE. YOU KNOW, THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS WE ARE SO PROUD OF HERE IN THE COUNTY, THE LONGEVITY OF OUR STAFF, BECAUSE THAT SHOWS THAT THE WORKING CONDITIONS THAT THEY HAVE ARE SATISFYING AND THE JOBS THAT THEY DO, THEY GET RECOGNITION FOR, AND EVERYBODY NEEDS THAT TYPE OF RECOGNITION. SO NOW [2. Volunteer Presentation: Receive a check from Sheri Newcomb, Director of Community Services, representing the total value of volunteer hours contributed, and present awards to volunteers.] I'M GONNA CALL HER MICHELLE JUSTO FOR THE VOLUNTEER REPORT PRESENTATION. OKAY. SHERRY, WHERE ARE YOU? OKAY, THANK YOU, CHAIRMAN NOEL. UH, GOOD EVENING EVERYONE. BOARD MEMBERS, MR. BELLAMY AND ESTEEMED GUESTS. MY NAME IS MICHELLE ANO AND I AM THE MANAGEMENT ANALYST IN COMMUNITY SERVICES. IT IS MY GREAT HONOR TO PRESENT THE OUTSTANDING VOLUNTEER AWARDS THIS EVENING, BUT BEFORE WE GET TO THE FUN PART, I WILL TRY MY BEST NOT TO BORE YOU WITH SOME OVERALL HIGHLIGHTS ABOUT THE YORK COUNTY VOLUNTEER SERVICES FOR CALENDAR YEAR 2024. SO THESE ARE SOME OF THE HIGHLIGHTS OF OUR 2024 VOLUNTEER SERVICES. UH, THE BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS AND COMMITTEES SERVE IN AN ADVISORY CAPACITY, RECOMMENDING VARIOUS ISSUES FACING THE COUNTY. THEY CAN BE FOUND WITHIN EIGHT DEPARTMENTS, COUNTY ADMIN, COMMUNITY SERVICES, ECONOMIC AND TOURISM DEVELOPMENT, FINANCE, HUMAN RESOURCES, THE LIBRARY PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT SERVICES AND PUBLIC WORKS. THE GROUPS, 30 GROUPS THAT ARE UP THERE INCLUDE VARIOUS AGENCIES AND ORGANIZATIONS, AND YOU MAY HEAR OF A FEW IN ANOTHER SLIDE THAT'S COMING RIGHT UP. THE EIGHT PROGRAMS ARE FOUND IN FOUR DIFFERENT DEPARTMENTS, INCLUDING FIRE AND LIFE SAFETY, PUBLIC WORKS, YORK POCOS AND SHERIFF'S OFFICE, AND THE VIRGINIA COOPERATIVE EXTENSION AND THE OFFICE. THE, UH, DEPARTMENT THAT USES THE OFFICE SUPPORT INTERNS IS THE COMMONWEALTH ATTORNEY'S OFFICE. MM-HMM . SOME ADDITIONAL HIGHLIGHTS. THE LIBRARY ALSO USES VOLUNTEERS THROUGH THE FRIENDS OF LIBRARY FOUNDATION PUBLIC WORKS CLEANUP PROJECTS INCLUDE CLEAN THE BAY, ADOPT A SPOT, AND THE GREAT AMERICAN CLEANUP. ECONOMIC AND TOURISM DEVELOPMENT OVERSEES THE GALLERY MARKET DAYS. CELEBRATE YORKTOWN ART AT THE RIVER JULY 4TH PARADE, JUST TO NAME A FEW. THERE ARE 55 VOLUNTEERS IN SOCIAL SERVICES THAT HAVE PROVIDED 625 HOURS, AND MORE THAN HALF OF THE VOLUNTEERS AT PARKS AND RECREATION WERE DEDICATED COACHES AND ASSISTANT COACHES. AND THERE WERE ALSO WORKING GROUPS THAT PROVIDED EDUCATIONAL PROGRAMS AT NEWCOR PARK. AND THIS IS THE LAST SLIDE WITH A FEW MORE HIGHLIGHTS. CHILDREN AND FAMILY SERVICES RECEIVED ASSISTANCE FROM THE FOOD BANK. KIWANIS AMERICORPS, OLD TOWN MEDICAL AND DENTAL LIONS CLUB, AND MANY LOCAL CHURCHES, FIRE AND LIFE SAFETY USE UTILIZES VOLUNTEERS FOR THEIR CERT AND EMERGENCY OPERATIONS. YORK POCS AND SHERIFF'S OFFICE HAS DARE AND AUXILIARY AUXILIARY DEPUTY SHERIFFS. AND THE LAST HIGHLIGHT INCLUDES VOLUNTEERS WHO WORKED WITH HOUSING DEPARTMENT. SO OVERALL, THERE WERE 1,838 VOLUNTEERS WHO DONATED 66,699 VOLUNTEER HOURS AND PROVIDED OVER $58,000 IN MONETARY AND IN KIND DONATIONS. AND MS. NOEL, THIS IS THE FUN PART. , I GET THE CHECK. SO WHAT IS THE TOTAL VALUE OF VOLUNTEER SERVICES IN 2024? 2 MILLION. THANK YOU. $376,670. THANK YOU. YOU ARE THE UNSUNG HEROES, ALL OF VOLUNTEERS, AND YOU'RE PART OF THE FABRIC OF, OF YOUR COUNTY. AND YOU SEE HOW MUCH THE WORK THAT YOU DO PAYS OFF AND HOW MUCH YOU ARE SAVING [00:10:01] OUR COUNTY. BUT THAT'S NOT THE POINT. THE POINT IS THAT YOU ARE PUTTING FORTH TIME AND EFFORT TO MAKE YOUR COUNTY WHAT IT IS. AND THE BOARD STANDS BEHIND YOU 100%. AND WE ARE SO PLEASED THAT YOU CONTINUE YEAR AFTER YEAR AFTER YEAR TO VOLUNTEER YOUR SERVICES. SO THANK YOU. IT SOUNDS ONLY TOO LITTLE WORDS, BUT THEY MEAN SO MUCH. AND WE HAVE TO THANK YOU FOR IT AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN. THANK SO GUYS, LOOK AT THIS. NO, WHAT WE GONNA DO WITH THE, YOU GONNA STAND RIGHT, YOU STAY RIGHT HERE. OKAY. I'LL STAY RIGHT HERE. THE OUTSTANDING VOLUNTEER AWARDS, THE ANNUAL OUTSTANDING VOLUNTEER AWARDS RECOGNIZE EXEMPLARY VOLUNTEERS SUPPORTING COUNTY GOVERNMENT AND DEPARTMENTS AND AGENCIES, AND ARE REPRESENTATIVE OF OUR MORE THAN 1800 DEDICATED VOLUNTEERS. KEVIN RICHIE, PLEASE COME FORWARD AND PRESENT THE AWARD TO THE 2024 OUTSTANDING VOLUNTEER OF THE YEAR. NO, THANK YOU. YOU HAVE DONE SUCH A REMARKABLE, REMARKABLE JOB. FIRST OF ALL, YOU WERE AT THE WATERMAN'S MUSEUM AND THEN YOU CAME OVER FOR CELEBRATE YORKTOWN AND PEOPLE SHOP THERE ALL THE TIME. AND THE MONEY THAT YOU RAISE GOES TOWARDS THE ALL THE THINGS THAT THE CELEBRATE YORKTOWN COMMITTEE DOES, INCLUDING THE CONCERT. THAT'S RIGHT. AND THAT THAT IS, THAT IS A TRULY A VERY BIG, BIG CONTRIBUTION. SO WHEN YOU READ IN THE NEWSPAPER THAT YOU SEE THAT THERE'S A, THERE YORK COUNTY IS HAVING THE VIRGINIA SYMPHONY COMING, THESE PEOPLE WHO WORK FOR CELEBRATE YORKTOWN AND SHARE JUST A HUGE JOB FOR THAT. THEY RAISE THE FUNDS SO THAT WE CAN PAY FOR THE CONCERT TO BE HERE. THE CONCERT'S NOT A FREEBIE. IT'S ONLY FREE TO YOU, BUT NOT FREE TO THOSE WHO RAISED THE MONEY FOR IT. THEY WORK VERY HARD ALL YEAR, SO THEY CAN GIVE YOU THIS GIFT AND I HOPE YOU ALL TURN OUT FOR IT. AND YOU HAVE VOLUNTEER. THANK YOU. SHARON OWENS 2024 VOLUNTEER OF THE YEAR, 2,269 HOURS OF VOLUNTEER SERVICE. THIS IS AN APPRECIATION OF THE OUTSTANDING VOLUNTEER COMMITMENT. SHARE SOMETHING LIKE THAT. YOU WANNA SAY A FEW WORDS? AND NOW WE KNOW WHY WE HAVE LOVELY PEOPLE HERE TONIGHT. SHARON, WOULD YOU LIKE TO SAY A FEW WORDS? I HAVE A GREAT TEAM. THANK YOU. I'VE NEVER SEEN MYSELF SO MUCH IN MY LIFE. , THANK YOU VOLUNTEERS. YOU MEAN A LOT TO ME AND YOU KNOW THAT. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. I'VE GOT A FEW THINGS THAT I WANTED TO ADD. UM, IT IS, UH, MY DISTINCT PLEASURE TO DO THIS. UM, SHARON AND I GO WAY BACK, OBVIOUSLY, UM, 23 YEARS PLUS, BUT, UM, I'M KEVIN RICH, THE EVENT MANAGER WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF ECONOMIC AND TOURISM DEVELOPMENT. THANK YOU, CHAIRMAN NOEL. MEMBERS OF THE BOARD, MR. BELLAMY. SO A LITTLE, A LITTLE HISTORY HERE. GALLERY YORK HALL OPENED IN 2002 AS A UNIQUE PARTNERSHIP BETWEEN THE CELEBRATE YORKTOWN COMMITTEE IN YORK COUNTY, DESIGNED TO SHOWCASE LOCAL AND REGIONAL ART, WHILE ALSO SERVING AS AN INFORMATION CENTER ON MAIN STREET FOR RESIDENTS AND VISITORS FROM DAY ONE, IT'S BEEN MORE THAN A GALLERY. IT'S BEEN A VIBRANT CULTURAL HUB AND EXTENSION OF OUR COMMUNITY. SPIRIT. AT THE HEART OF THE SUCCESS IS VOLUNTEER MANAGER SHARON OWEN, WHO HAS LED THE GALLERY WITH PASSION AND PURPOSE FOR MORE THAN 23 YEARS. UNDER HER LEADERSHIP, THE GALLERY HAS PROVIDED A PLATFORM FOR HUNDREDS OF ARTISTS TO SHARE THEIR WORK, WHILE ALSO GENERATING FUNDS TO SUPPORT CHAIRS. COMMUNITY PROGRAMS LIKE THE ANNUAL VIRGINIA SYMPHONY CONCERT HELD EACH LABOR DAY WEEKEND FREE AND OPEN TO THE PUBLIC, AS WELL AS OTHER LOCAL MUSEUM MUSEUMS, HISTORIC SITES, AND PERFORMING ART EVENTS. CHAIR LEADS A TEAM OF 25 PLUS VOLUNTEERS, BUT SHE LEADS BY EXAMPLE, LOGGING AN EXTRAORDINARILY 2,269 VOLUNTEER HOURS IN 24 2024 ALONE, AND REPRESENTS NEARLY HALF OF THE TOTAL OF THE 5,842 HOURS CONTRIBUTED BY THE GALLERY LAST YEAR. THIS EQUATES TO AN AVERAGE OF 50 HOURS A WEEK AND OFTEN MORE [00:15:01] GIVING HER TIME, ENERGY, AND HEART TO YOURTOWN. SHE CONTINUES TO SPEARHEAD THE BELOVED TRADITION, LIKE THE ANNUAL COOKIES WITH SANTA EVENT, BRINGING JOY TO FAMILIES THAT COME TO YORK HALL EACH HOLIDAY SEASON. SHE ROTATES THE EXHIBITS TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE, UM, DYNAMIC AND RELEVANT AND KEEPS THE LOCALS AND VISITORS COMING BACK TIME AND TIME AGAIN AS OUR DIRECTOR, KRISTY OLDEN SHARED, AND I QUOTE, I CONTINUE TO BE IN AWE, SHARES TIRELESS COMMITMENT, HER KINDNESS, AND THE WAY SHE GOES ABOVE AND BEYOND FOR YOUR TOWN, ITS RESIDENTS AND VISITORS. SHARON, YOU EMBODY THE SPIRIT OF SERVICE THIS HONOR COULDN'T GO TO A MORE DESERVING PERSON. CONGRATULATIONS, SHARON. YOUR DEDICATION IS INSPIRING, YOUR IMPACT AND MEASURABLE AND YOUR LEGACY UNDENIABLE. ON BEHALF OF YORK COUNTY, WE THANK YOU AND PROUDLY RECOGNIZE YOU AS OUR 2024 VOLUNTEER OF THE YEAR. . SHARON, I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO SAY. THANK YOU ALL HERE, . ARE WE GOOD, KEVIN? THANK YOU. OKAY, THANK YOU. HOW MANY HOURS TO 20, 24? NOW IF WE HAD SO MANY PEOPLE, SHERIFF MONTGOMERY, I THINK THIS IS YOUR PART OF THE PRESENTATION. SORRY, WE HAVE ONE MORE. ONE MORE. MEGAN TIERNEY, CAN YOU COME FORWARD AND PRESENT THE AWARD TO THE 2025 OUTSTANDING VOLUNTEER ORGANIZATION OF THE YEAR? OH, WHICH ONE IS THAT? HI SHEILA, HOW ARE YOU DOING? HELLO, CATHERINE. RIGHT UP. SO GOOD EVENING EVERYONE. I'D LIKE TO TAKE A COUPLE OF MINUTES TO RECOGNIZE AND SINCERELY THANK THE INCREDIBLE VOLUNTEERS WHO MAKE OUR VIRGINIA COOPERATIVE EXTENSION PROGRAM. NOT ONLY POSSIBLE, BUT IMPACTFUL AND TRULY INSPIRING. IN 2004 ALONE, OUR VOLUNTEERS CONTRIBUTED OVER 220,000 HOURS OF SERVICE. THAT'S AN ECONOMIC VALUE OF MORE THAN $667,000, EQUIVALENT TO THE WORK OF AT LEAST 13 FULL-TIME STAFF. THAT'S NOT JUST IMPRESSIVE, IT'S EXTRAORDINARY. THROUGH YOUR DEDICATION OF TIME, ENERGY, AND EXPERTISE, YOU'RE MAKING A REAL DIFFERENCE IN OUR COMMUNITY. WHETHER THROUGH HEALTHY VIRGINIA LAWN VISITS THAT HELP REDUCE EXCESSIVE FERTILIZER USE THE COUNTLESS HOURS SPENT ANSWERING HELP DESK QUESTIONS, RESPONDING TO TREE CALLS OR CONDUCTING LANDSCAPE VISITS, YOU'RE CREATING A HEALTHIER, MORE SUSTAINABLE ENVIRONMENT FOR EVERYONE. YOU'VE MAINTAINED OUR DEMONSTRATION GARDENS, NOT JUST FOR THEIR BEAUTY, BUT TO EDUCATE HOMEOWNERS ON SMART COST-EFFECTIVE PLANTING CHOICES. YOU'VE HELPED PEOPLE SAVE MONEY, PROTECT NATURAL RESOURCES, AND FEEL CONFIDENT IN CARING FOR THEIR OWN LANDSCAPES. YOU'VE TRAINED YEAR ROUND TO SERVE AS POSITIVE YOUTH LEADERS AT THE FOUR H JUNIOR OVERNIGHT CAMP, WHERE MORE THAN 160 YOUTH UN OR UNPLUGGED FROM TECHNOLOGY AND ENGAGE IN OUTDOOR LEARNING ACTIVITIES. AND SPORTS TEEN COUNSELOR VOLUNTEERS GAINED VALUABLE LEADERSHIP EXPERIENCE AND MANY OF YOUR YOUTH SUPPORTED YEAR LONG FOUR H CLUBS PROVIDING YOUTH WITH CONSISTENT ACCESS TO ENRICHING CURRICULUM. YOU SUPPORTED COMMUNITY GARDENS, INCREASED ACCESS TO FRESH PRODUCE, EDUCATED THE PUBLIC ABOUT POLLINATORS OF BIODIVERSITY, AND REPRESENTED OUR PROGRAMS AT EVENTS WITH BOTH PASSION AND EXPERTISE. EVERY TASK YOU TAKE ON WHETHER CENTER STAGE OR BEHIND THE SCENES MOVES OUR MISSION FORWARD AND YOU DO IT ALL AS VOLUNTEERS. THAT IS THE VERY DEFINITION OF GENEROSITY. TONIGHT WE'RE PROUD TO RECOGNIZE CATHERINE BRESNAN ACCEPTING THIS AWARD ON BEHALF OF ALL YORK PICOS AND VCE VOLUNTEERS, AS A FORMER MASTER GARDENER VOLUNTEER COORDINATOR AND THE CURRENT MASTER GARDENER ASSOCIATION CHAIR, CATHERINE TRULY EMBODIES THE HEART AND SPIRIT OF THIS AMAZING TEAM. PLEASE JOIN ME IN CONGRATULATING CATHERINE AND IN THANKING ALL OF OUR VCE VOLUNTEERS FOR THEIR OUTSTANDING SERVICE. I HAVE BEEN A FAN OF THE, OF THE GARDENERS EVER SINCE I CAME ON THE BOARD. YOU ALL DO SUCH A FANTASTIC JOB AND THE EDUCATION THAT YOU GIVE OTHERS, YOU KNOW, I WISH I'D HAD IT , BUT CONGRATULATIONS. THANK YOU. AND CONTINUED GOOD WORK. ABSOLUTELY. AND WE'LL SEE YOU AT THE NEXT PLANT SALE. YES, YOU WILL. . OKAY, NOW I THINK MAYBE SHERIFF, [3. Service Recognitions: Present service pins to employees for their years of service to York County.] IF I'VE GOT THE RIGHT PAGE. [00:20:13] GOOD EVENING, MADAM CHAIRMAN, MEMBERS OF THE BOARD. TONIGHT, IT'S MY DISTINCT PRIVILEGE TO PRESENT TO YOU THREE EMPLOYEES OF THE YORK PERCUSSION SHERIFF'S OFFICE THAT HAVE ALL RECENTLY PASSED A 20 YEAR MARK OF SERVICE TO THE COUNTY OF YORK. FIRST I'M GONNA INTRODUCE KRISTEN CROW. KRISTEN, COME ON UP. KRISTEN BEGAN AS A WORKERS' REQUIRED EMPLOYEE WITH THE COMMISSIONER OF REVENUE IN APRIL OF 2005. SHE BECAME FULL-TIME WITH THE COMMISSIONER OF REVENUE'S OFFICE IN AUGUST OF 2005. AND THEN IN OCTOBER OF 16 OF 2006, SHE MADE THE GREAT DECISION TO LEAVE THAT POSITION AND COME TO WORK WITH THE YORK IAN SHERIFF'S OFFICE AND WE'RE VERY GRATEFUL FOR THAT DECISION. SHE STARTED AS AN ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT. ONE, SHE'S WORKED HER WAY UP OVER THE YEARS. SHE'S CURRENTLY AN ADMINISTRATIVE TECHNICIAN. KRISTEN CROW. KRISTEN, CONGRATULATIONS SO MUCH. I MEAN, THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT WHEN I TALK ABOUT PEOPLE WORKING FOR THE COUNTY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. NEXT I WANT TO INTRODUCE TO YOU JESSICA VALIER. JESSICA STARTED WITH THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE ON AUGUST OF 22ND, 2005. SHE BEGAN HER CAREER AS AN ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT. TWO. SHE'S SINCE BEEN A GONE THROUGH THE PROMOTION PROCESS AS AN ADMINISTRATIVE TECHNICIAN. AND SHE'S CURRENTLY AN ADMINISTRATIVE THREE WHERE SHE SUPERVISES THREE FULL-TIME ADMINISTRATIVE TECHNICIAN AND A WORK AS REQUIRED EMPLOYEE AS WELL. JESSICA, EVA, I SO GLAD TO BE OPEN TO TEACHERS. YOU MIGHT WANNA OPEN AND SEE WHAT IT IS. I WANNA SEE WHAT IT IS TOO. MAYBE IT'S OKAY. ALL RIGHT. WHICH WAY IS IT? OH, THAT YOUR, IT'S HER PEN AND HER CERTIFICATE FOR THE NUMBER OF YEARS THAT SHE'S WORKED FOR THE COUNTY AND THAT'S VERY, VERY SPECIAL. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. CONGRATULATIONS. AND LAST BUT CERTAINLY NOT LEAST, I WANNA INTRODUCE YOU MASTER DEPUTY JAMES COX. I WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT AS WIFE LISA IS HERE AS WELL TONIGHT. JAMES CAME TO US FROM THE WILLIAM AND MARY POLICE DEPARTMENT IN JULY OF 2005. HE WAS A UNIFORM PATROL OFFICER PRIOR TO THAT. AND PRIOR TO BEING WITH WILLIAM AND MARY, HE SERVED HIS COUNTRY IN THE UNITED STATES NAVY FOR 20 YEARS AND FOUR MONTHS. OKAY. SINCE BECOMING TO THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE, HE'S INITIALLY WAS A PATROL OFFICER. HE'S BEEN PROMOTED TO THE DEPUTY FIRST CLASS. HE'S CURRENTLY A MASTER DEPUTY. HE WAS ASSIGNED TO UNIFORM PATROL FROM 2005 TO 2016 AND 2016 HE WAS ASSIGNED TO THE COURT SECURITY DIVISION, CIVIL PROCESS WHERE HE WAS AB HE WAS OBTAINED OR HE OBTAINED THE DISTINCTION OF BEING THE LEAD BAILIFF IN THE GENERAL DISTRICT COURT. NOT LONG AFTER THAT IS WHEN HE BECAME ONE OF OUR THREE CIVIL DEPUTIES. SO CONGRATULATIONS TO MASTER DEPUTY JAMES COX FOR 20 YEARS OF SERVICE. THANK YOU. CONGRATULATIONS. THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE. THANK YOU. BYE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. ALRIGHT, NOW WE HAVE INFANT INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY, HOWARD JEAN GOODWIN. SO HOPEFULLY JEAN GOODWIN CAN JUMP OUT FROM THE BACK. , . HEY GENE. ALL THAT GENE, Y'ALL COME . SO GENE GOODWIN'S, THE COUNTY'S VIDEO ENGINEER, UM, OBVIOUSLY HE DOESN'T GET A NIGHT OFF. HE'S INTEGRAL TO ALL THE BROADCASTS FOR BOTH THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS, THE SCHOOL BOARD OF MEETINGS, PLAYING COMMISSION AND OTHER ITEMS. HE'S SEEN TECHNOLOGY CHANGE OVER THE 20 YEARS AND HAS BEEN A KEY PERSON ON VIDEO BOTH OUT IN THE FIELD HERE IN YORK HALL, IN THE EAST ROOM UPSTAIRS AND THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE COUNTY. AND IF YOU'VE EVER TALKED TO ANYONE ELSE IN THE VIDEO FIELD INDUSTRY IN HAMPTON ROADS, THEY KNOW GENE JEAN HAS BOTH KNOWN AND RESPECTED ACROSS ALL OF HIS PEERS. EVERYWHERE WE'VE GONE, WHETHER IT'S TRADE SHOW, AN INDUSTRY, ANOTHER LOCALITY AND WE'RE VERY PROUD AND HAPPY. HE'S PART OF YOUR COUNTY. SHE WAKE ME UP. HERE YOU GO. WE GOT THAT. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU. THANK YOU. HE WIRED ME UP BEFORE I GOT UP [00:25:01] HERE. OKAY. AND THEN BRIAN LEE, EMERGING COMMUNICATIONS. TERRY, YOU COMING TO PRESENT? GOOD EVENING AND THANKS FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO COME RECOGNIZE OR WHEREVER HE IS. THAT'S KIND OF BRIAN. HE'S ALL OVER THE PLACE. SO BRIAN LEE HAS BEEN WITH US FOR 20 YEARS. IT'S NOT BRIAN'S FIRST TRIP HERE. BRIAN HAS WORKED FOR US THREE TIMES. FIRST TIME HE DECIDED HE WANTED TO WORK FOR THE STATE POLICE. SO HE LEFT US FOR A YEAR AND CAME BACK AND THEN HE SAID, YOU KNOW WHAT? I DON'T KNOW IF THIS JOB'S RIGHT FOR ME. SO HE WENT TO WORK IN THE BANKING AND BECAME A, A, UH, ASSISTANT MANAGER AT A BANK. AND HE CALLED ME UP ONE DAY, HE SAID, WOULD YOU ENTERTAIN HIRING ME FOR A THIRD TIME? AND THAT'S BEEN 20 YEARS AGO. AND UH, IT HAS BEEN A REAL PLEASURE WORKING FOR BRIAN. ANYONE WHO WORKS FOR COUNTY GOVERNMENT KNOWS BRIAN AND KNOWS BRIAN'S REPUTATION. BRIAN, UH, IS JUST LIKE THIS. YOU'RE LOOKING FROM ONE PLACE AND HE POPS UP SOMEWHERE ELSE IN THE 9 1 1 CENTER. IF WE GET REALLY BUSY, THERE'S A BUTTON THAT THE DISPATCHER PUSHES AND YOU PUSH THE BUTTON AND IT SETS OFF AN ALERT IN THE BUILDING TELLING EVERYBODY WE'VE GOT A HOT CALL, IT'S GONNA GET BUSY. WE'RE IN A STAFF MEETING. BRIAN WILL GO UP AND EVERYBODY WILL REMAIN SEATING BECAUSE THEY KNOW THAT BRIAN HAS IT AND HE'S GONNA YELL FOR HELP IF HE NEEDS IT. SO HE IS OUR 9 1 1 SYSTEMS MANAGER. HE TAKES CARE OF AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF TECHNOLOGY. HE WORKS VERY CLOSE WITH, UH, TIM'S GROUP IN PASCAL OVER IN COUNTY IT. AND UH, BRIAN, I HOPE THAT YOU STAY AT LEAST ANOTHER 20 YEARS, AS I'M APPROACHING RETIREMENT RAY'S LIKE WHATEVER YOU DO, DON'T MAKE BRIAN MAD BECAUSE I NEED HIM WHEN YOU LEAVE . SO JOIN ME IN, IN THINKING BRIAN FOR HIS 20 PLUS YEARS OF SERVICE. OH, BRIAN, THANK YOU. YOU KNOW HOW I NO. JOYCELYN CORBIN PLANNING DEVELOPMENT SERVICES. , HOW LONG HAVE I KNOWN YOU JOYCELYN? ? 25 YEARS PROBABLY. JOYCELYN IS ONE OF OUR VERY FRIENDLY FACES IN ZONING AND CODE ENFORCEMENT AND HAS BEEN FOR 25 YEARS. WE'RE VERY EXCITED. UH, WHEN I SAW IT WAS HER 25 YEAR ANNIVERSARY, I WAS LIKE, THERE'S NO WAY. NO WAY. SHE'S YOUNGER THAN ME, A LOT YOUNGER THAN ME, . UH, BUT WE LOVE HAVING JOYCELYN IN OUR, UH, DEPARTMENT AND SHE ALWAYS DOES WONDERFUL JOBS. SO CONGRATULATIONS ON 25 YEARS. JOY. I'M SO PLEASED. I LIKE A NAIL POLISH . THIS IS A BIGGIE. CHARLES LEWI FIRE AND LIFE SAFETY. IT'S GOOD. IT'S GOOD TO SEE YOU. GOOD TO SEE YOU. GO AHEAD. MADAM CHAIRMAN, BOARD OF SUPERVISORS, MR. BELLAMY. CAPTAIN LEWI HAS BEEN WITH US SINCE AUGUST OF 1990 AND, UM, AGAIN, RISEN UP THROUGH THE RANKS. UM, HE'S ONE OF THE LEADERS OF OUR FIRE OFFICER ACADEMY AND A REGIONAL BASIS FOR THE HAMPTON ROADS FIRE OFFICERS GROUP. UM, ALSO IS THE CAPTAIN OF OUR HONOR GUARD AND IS QUALIFIED TO BE AN ACTING BATTALION CHIEF, WHICH HE IS DOING THE NIGHT WHILE HE'S HERE. SO, UM, CAPTAIN LEFTWICH HAS DEFINITELY SEEN, UM, EVERY ASPECT OF THE DEPARTMENT AND IS JUST A KEY COMPONENT OF WHAT WE DO AND SETS A LEADERSHIP STANDARD FOR THE REST OF THE ORGANIZATION. THANK YOU, CAPTAIN. THANK YOU SO MUCH. CONGRATULATIONS. TAKE THAT . WAIT, WAIT, WAIT, WAIT, WAIT. COME BACK. WE DIDN'T GET, WE DIDN'T GET A PICTURE. . NOW WE'RE DONE. BYE BYE. THANK YOU. NOW, SHERRY, I THINK YOU HAVE THE DECK. WHERE ARE YOU? PARKS AND RECREATION DIVISION, IF YOU'D LIKE TO SIT DOWN. UH, DO I GET TO SIT DOWN? YOU CAN. YOU DO GET TO THANK SIT DOWN . BUT BEFORE I GO, REMEMBER WHAT I SAID ABOUT THE PEOPLE WHO WORK FOR THE COUNTY AND HOW DEDICATED THEY ARE. AND YOU'VE SEEN THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN HERE TODAY THAT HAVE GOTTEN THEIR AWARDS AND THAT'S BECAUSE OF ALL THEY'VE CONTRIBUTED AND THE FACT THAT THEY'VE STAYED WITH THE COUNTY BECAUSE THE COUNTY IS SPECIAL TO THEM AS WELL AS IT IS TO US AND TO ALL OF OUR CITIZENS. SO EVEN THOUGH THEY WALKED OUT THE DOOR, I STILL WANNA SAY [00:30:01] THANK YOU AND THANK YOU AGAIN. AND I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO SEEING A LOT OF YOU UP HERE IN THE COMING YEARS. THANK YOU. AND CHAIRMAN NOEL IS SO EXCITED ABOUT RECEIVING THAT CHECK. SHE WAS LITERALLY DANCING IN HER SEAT LAST WEEK. . YES. [4. Parks and Recreation Division: Presentation by staff on upcoming fall events and activities.] WELL, THANK YOU FOR HAVING US. I WANTED TO TAKE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO INTRODUCE YOU TO BEN WHITENER. BEN IS OUR NEW PARKS AND RECREATIONS MANAGER. HE CAME FROM AL MA COUNTY OUT OF NEAR CHARLOTTESVILLE, UM, ALSO BY WAY OF FLORIDA, ALSO BY WAY COLORADO. AND SO WE'RE REALLY EXCITED TO HAVE HIM ON BOARD AND HE'S GOING TO MAKE A SHORT PRESENTATION ON WHAT'S GOING ON IN PARKS AND RECREATIONS AND THEN HOPEFULLY ANSWER ANY OF YOUR QUESTIONS. HE GETS TO USE THE NEW CARD THOUGH, . THANK YOU SHERRY. APPRECIATE IT. GOOD EVENING EVERYBODY. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME. IT'S AN HONOR TO BE HERE. AGAIN, MY NAME IS BEN WHITENER AND PARKS AND RECREATION MANAGER. UM, I HAVE BOUNCED AROUND THE COUNTRY, BUT I GREW UP IN RICHMOND. UM, MY FIRST MEMORY OF YORKTOWN WAS A FOURTH GRADE FIELD TRIP ABOUT 25 YEARS AGO, SO IT'S NOT CHANGED MUCH SINCE THEN. UM, BUT I AM, UH, DEFINITELY HAPPY TO BE HERE. SO THE BIGGEST THING THAT WE'RE WORKING ON THAT ACTUALLY KICKED OFF, UH, THIS WEEK IS WE ARE WORKING WITH MCGILL ASSOCIATES TO, UM, CONDUCT A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN OF THE PARKS AND RECREATION DIVISION. UM, THE GOAL IS TO ENHANCE THE, THE DIVISION'S STRUCTURE AND OPERATIONS, UM, AND IDENTIFY LONG-TERM GOALS INTO ACHIEVABLE GOALS. THE LATEST, I'M SORRY, DATA COLLECTION HAS ACTUALLY ALREADY STARTED. UM, WE HAVE SENT SURVEYS OUT, OR GIL HAS, UM, THEY WILL ACTUALLY BE HERE THIS WEEK. UM, AND THEN THEY WILL BE HERE AGAIN IN MID-SEPTEMBER TO COLLECT DATA. THEY WILL BE AT, UM, CERTAIN COMMUNITY EVENTS THROUGHOUT THE COUNTY. UM, AND THEN THEY WILL BE PRESENTING THEIR DATA AND INFORMATION WITH THEIR PLAN TO YOU ALL IN DECEMBER. SO WE'RE VERY EXCITED ABOUT THAT. WE'RE, UH, VERY EXCITED TO HAVE DATA, UM, THAT IS STRAIGHT FROM THE FOLKS OF YORK COUNTY. UH, THIS PAST SPRING. UM, WE, UH, JUST TO TOUCH ON A COUPLE OF THINGS THAT WE DO. UM, WE HAD OUR YOUTH SOCCER PROGRAM. WE HAD 881 PARTICIPANTS. UM, WE HAVE, UM, ART AND FITNESS CLASSES, UM, SKATE, RATTLE AND ROLL, UM, WHICH IS A PROGRAM WE HAVE AT DEER ELEMENTARY ON FRIDAYS DURING THE SCHOOL YEAR. UM, AND THEN OUR STORYBOOK STROLL AT THE MAC, UM, ATHLETIC COMPLEX. UM, YOU CAN SEE SOME OF OUR, UH, PICTURES HERE AT THE BOTTOM. UM, SKATE ROUTE AND ROLL RIGHT DOWN THERE IN THE, UH, BASKETBALL GYM. AND THEN THIS SUMMER, BAT CREEK PARK, UH, WON THE REVITALIZATION 2025 ACHIEVEMENT AWARD. UM, WE'RE VERY PROUD OF THAT. UM, WE ALSO HAD OUR SUMMER FUN PROGRAM, SAFETY TOWN SPORTS CAMPS, AND THEN OF COURSE OUR PICKLEBALL TOURNAMENTS AT OUR NEW PICKLEBALL COURTS. BACK CREEK PARK. FOR OUR SUMMER SPORTS, WE HAD OVER 600 PARTICIPANTS IN SPORTS CAMPS. THAT'S BASEBALL, PICKLEBALL, SOCCER, TENNIS, AND VOLLEYBALL. WE'VE ALSO STARTED PICKLEBALL TOURNAMENTS, WHICH HAVE BEEN A BIG HIT. AND WE HAVE A COUPLE OF TOURNAMENTS PLANNED FOR THIS FALL. UM, SO WE'RE VERY EXCITED ABOUT EVERYTHING PICKLEBALL, EVERYTHING SPORTS, BUT MOSTLY PICKLEBALL, SAFETY TOWN AND SPECIAL REC CAMP. SO SAFETY TOWN. UH, WE SOLD OUT EVERY WEEK. THIS SUMMER WE HAD, UH, 200 RISING KINDERGARTNERS. WE HAD 39 VOLUNTEERS FROM YORK COUNTY SCHOOL DIVISION. UH, WE ALSO HAD OUR SPECIAL REC CAMP, WHICH IS A, UH, SUMMER CAMP FOR, UH, SPECIAL NEEDS CAMPERS. UH, WE HAD 17 CAMPERS IN THAT AS WELL. AND YOU CAN SEE SOME OF OUR PICTURES HERE AT THE BOTTOM. UH, WE HAD A PETTING ZOO. WE HAD THE FIRE DEPARTMENT COME OUT, POLICE DEPARTMENT FOR SAFETY TOWN. UM, IT WAS A VERY BIG HIT. SOME ARE FUN AND FIELD TRIP FEVER. SO WE HAD 478 CHILDREN ATTEND SUMMER FUN AT FIVE ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS AND ONE MIDDLE SCHOOL TOTAL OF SIX SITES. FIELD TRIP FEVER, WE HAD 254 CHILDREN ATTEND. UM, SPLIT BETWEEN TWO PROGRAMS. FIELD TRIP FEVER ONE AND FIELD TRIP FEVER TWO. SO IT WAS A VERY BUSY SUMMER. UM, AND WE IMPACTED A LOT OF CHILDREN IN YORK COUNTY, OUR SENIOR CENTER. UM, SO WE, UM, HAD A TRIP TO BALTIMORE. MM-HMM . WE HAD A DAY TRIP TO JAMESTOWN. WE HAD AN ICE CREAM SOCIAL RECENTLY. AND EVERYONE IS GETTING VERY EXCITED FOR OUR TRIP TO LANCASTER HERE IN OCTOBER. UM, IN LANCASTER, WE HAVE, UH, LOT OF FUN STUFF PLANNED. WE'RE GONNA BE GOING TO THE PLAY. NOAH, A GUIDED TOUR OF AMISH COUNTRY, A MINIATURE HORSE FARM. [00:35:01] AND WE ALSO HAVE, UH, THE VIRGINIA ZOO LINED UP FOR SEPTEMBER AND ALSO THE JEFFERSON HOTEL. WE'RE GONNA BE HAVING A TEE IN SEPTEMBER AT THE JEFFERSON HOTEL IN RICHMOND. I'M TOLD THAT THERE IS A WAIT LIST FOR THAT. SO WE ARE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WAYS WHERE WE CAN GET MORE FOLKS TO THAT, BECAUSE THAT'S GONNA BE A BIG HIT. LOOKING AHEAD TO FALL 2025. SO FALL SOCCER STARTS IN ABOUT A MONTH. WE HAVE OVER 700 SOCCER PLAYERS SIGNED UP, SKATE, RATTLE, AND ROLL RETURNS. SEPTEMBER 5TH AT DARE ELEMENTARY. UM, SENIOR SAFETY SUMMIT IS OCTOBER 7TH. AND THEN WE HAVE TWO, UH, HALLOWEEN EVENTS THAT WE'RE GONNA BE ROLLING OUT THIS FALL AS WELL. THE NEW QUARTER PARK SPECTACULAR IS OCTOBER 18TH. THAT IS A HAUNTED TRAIL HALLOWEEN EVENT FOR MIDDLE SCHOOL AGED AND UP. VERY EXCITED FOR THAT NEW PROGRAM. AND THEN WE'RE GONNA HAVE OUR SECOND ANNUAL HALLOWEEN BASH AT THE MAC ON OCTOBER 24TH. THAT'S A TRUNK RETREAT, TOUCH A TRUCK, UM, EVENT. IT'S GONNA BE A LOT OF FUN. UM, THE GOAL IS TO MAKE THESE EVENTS, UH, BIGGER AND BETTER EACH YEAR. SO WE'RE VERY EXCITED TO BE ROLLING OUT, UM, NEW PROGRAMS THIS FALL. AND WITH THAT, DO YOU GUYS HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR ME, TOM? YEP. AND CAN YOU, UM, ENLIGHTEN US AS TO THE USE WE ARE GETTING OUT OF OUR, UH, THE PARK, THE MAC PARK COMPLEX? I CAN GET YOU THE EXACT NUMBERS. I WOULDN'T BE THE EXACT NUMBERS. I NEED THEREABOUT NUMBERS. OKAY. WE ARE HAVING PROGRAM OUT THERE SEVEN DAYS A WEEK, UH, STARTING THIS FALL. UM, THIS SUMMER WE, WE DIDN'T HAVE PROGRAMMING EVERY DAY. IT'S, IT'S A LITTLE BIT OF A SLOWER TIME, BUT WE HAD CAMPS. WE HAD, UM, A A U BASEBALL TOURNAMENTS, UM, AND WE'RE GEARING UP FOR OUR SOCCER, UH, SEASON. WE'RE GONNA HAVE PRACTICES AND GAMES OUT THERE SIX DAYS A WEEK AND THEN FLAG FOOTBALL RUN BY ANOTHER ORGANIZATION ON SUNDAYS. SO IT'S GONNA BE VERY, VERY, VERY BUSY. SO IF, IF YOU HAD TO KIND OF GUESS AT THE NUMBER OF EVENTS, UM, THAT WE HAVE OUT THERE THAT ARE SPONSORED BY THE COUNTY ON AN ANNUAL BASIS OR A SEASONAL BASIS, ANNUAL, I DON'T HAVE THAT EXACT NUMBER. SHERRY, DO YOU KNOW OF THAT ONE BY CHANCE? I'M HAPPY TO GET THAT ONE FOR YOU. YEAH, I DON'T SPECIFICALLY HAVE IT, BUT I CAN GET IT TO YOU. OKAY. I CAN'T, I BRING THIS UP AND IT'S FOR THE BOARD. UH, WE GO BACK TO THE TIME WHEN, UH, SHEILA AND I HAD TO FACE THE, UH, THE CONCERNS OF THE CITIZENS ABOUT BUILDING THE MAC. OH, THE MAC. IT WAS NOT, IT WASN'T A CHEAP, UH, OPERATION. I THINK IT COST, UH, $19 MILLION. WE FINANCED, UH, UH, 14 MILLION OF IT. AND MY UNDERSTANDING IS IT'S PAID OFF NOW. UM, BUT, UH, WE LOOKED AT ALL KIND OF WAYS OF MAKING, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO MAKE MONEY OUT OF THE DEAL TO HELP FUND, UH, THE ACTIVITIES OUT THERE. AND, UH, THERE WAS A LOT GOING ON AT THE VERY BEGINNING. UM, THEY, IF I RECALL THE NUMBER THAT WAS SET WAS AROUND 6,500 EVENTS A YEAR WAS SET FOR THE, ABOUT WHAT WE THOUGHT WAS GONNA BE THE MAX AMOUNT. SO IT'S BEEN A LONG TIME. UH, I, I GET NOTHING BUT, UH, COMPLIMENTS ABOUT THE PARK. UH, I KNOW REALTORS TAKE, PEOPLE ARE BUYING HOMES. THEY BRING PEOPLE THERE TO SHOW 'EM, HEY, THIS IS AN AMENITY THAT'S CLOSE TO YOUR HOME. UM, AND I'VE JUST KIND OF, UH, I THINK THE BOARD WOULD LIKE OR NEEDS TO KNOW, UH, SINCE WE PUT SUCH AN INVESTMENT IN SO MANY YEARS AGO IN, UH, IN THAT, DID IT HELP IN 2009 WHEN I THINK WHAT YOU WANT IS TO, UH, VALIDATE OUR VISION? WELL, I MEAN, I, WELL IF IT'S, IF IT, I'D LIKE TO KNOW WHERE WE ARE WITH IT. OKAY. I MEAN, IT'S ALL THESE YEARS NOW IT'S TIME. OKAY. SO YOU GUYS CAN KIND OF GIVE US SOME INFORMATION ON THAT'D APPRECIATE IT. WE CAN, WE'LL DO AN ANNUAL REPORT AND PROVIDE THAT TO YOU. ALRIGHT. THANK YOU. MM-HMM . THANK YOU SIR. ANYBODY? YES. SO, STEVEN, GLAD TO HEAR ABOUT THE STUDY YOU'RE DOING. MM-HMM. BE VERY INTERESTED TO HEAR THE OUTPUT OF THAT MM-HMM . BUT THAT'S BEING DRIVEN BY INPUT THAT YOU RECEIVE FROM THE CITIZENS. I'M KIND OF CURIOUS WHAT YOU'RE SEEING AS THE OVER AUCTION THEME FROM WHAT THE CITIZENS ARE LOOKING FOR FROM YORK COUNTY PARKS. I HAVE NOT SEEN THE DATA YET. UM, THEY HAVE, IT'S BEING COMPLETELY DONE BY MCGILL. THEY CREATED THE SURVEYS, THEY'RE GONNA BE RUNNING THE EVENTS. UM, I, I'M UNSURE IF THEY'RE GONNA BE SHARING THAT WITH ME IN REAL TIME. I KNOW THEY WILL BE COLLECTING DATA UNTIL MID-SEPTEMBER. AND THEN THE PLAN IS TO WORK ON THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN THROUGH THE FALL AND THEN HAVE IT READY TO BE PRESENTED TO YOU ALL IN DECEMBER. UM, BUT AS OF NOW, I, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE OVERALL FEEDBACK HAS BEEN BECAUSE I DO NOT HAVE ACCESS TO IT. OKAY. OKAY. ALRIGHT. I, YEAH, WE'RE GONNA BE VERY CURIOUS TO HEAR WHAT, UH, OH, OF COURSE. YEAH. WHAT, WHAT PEOPLE ARE LOOKING FOR. SO FOR SURE. FOR SURE. LIKE MAYBE MORE, MORE FOOTBALL. SO YEAH, FOR SURE. OH, [00:40:01] I CAN'T IMAGINE WHY YOU SAID THAT. . I'M EAGER TO KNOW TOO. UM, SO I, I MIGHT HAVE TO ASK FOR A SNEAK PEEK HERE IN A COUPLE. I THINK DOUG HAS A QUESTION FOR YOU ALSO. SURE. WELCOME TO YORK COUNTY, BEN. THANK YOU. UM, HAVING, HAVING BEEN NEW TO THE COUNTY, WHAT WOULD YOU SEE, OR WHAT, WHAT DO YOU SEE THAT WE SHOULD BE OFFERING? WHAT, WHAT'S MISSING YOUR EXPERIENCE? WHAT WOULD YOU BRING TO YORK THAT, UH, THAT YOU'RE NOT SEEING CURRENTLY? THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION. I THINK, UM, FROM WHAT I'VE SEEN, HAVING ONLY DONE PARKS AND REC IN MY CAREER, GONE TO SCHOOL FOR IT, I THINK THAT THERE'S A NEED FOR SOME TYPE OF COMMUNITY CENTER. UM, A SPACE FOR RECREATION TO TAKE PLACE. YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A SENIOR CENTER. IT'S, IT GETS A LOT OF USE. UM, BUT I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO SEE, UM, A SPACE WHERE WE CAN BRING PEOPLE TOGETHER. UM, NOT EVERYONE PLAYS SPORTS. UM, NOT EVERYONE PLAYS PICKLEBALL. WE HAVE GREAT SPORTS FACILITIES, WE HAVE GREAT PICKLEBALL FACILITIES, BUT I LIKE TO SEE A SPACE WHERE WE CAN, UM, BRING FOLKS TOGETHER FOR COMMUNITY EVENTS, MEETINGS, UM, AND RECREATE IN THAT KIND OF WAY. SO I, I WOULD HOPE BE HOPEFUL FOR SOME TYPE OF FACILITY. THAT'S GOOD INPUT. THANK YOU. YEP. OF COURSE. YOU'VE BEEN BUSY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I'M GLAD YOU'VE ARRIVED. THANK YOU SO MUCH. HAVE A GOOD DAY. APPRECIATE IT. OKAY, NOW LET'S SEE. WE'RE DOWN TO, UM, COMMENTS. I GOT CITIZEN [CITIZENS' COMMENT PERIOD] COMMENTS, PERIOD. I THINK I HAVE PAM POSHO SIGNED UP. PAM NAME AND ADDRESS PLEASE. THREE MINUTES. I'VE BEEN HERE 35 YEARS. KEN, I GET AN AWARD OF 20 MINUTES TO SPEAK. ? NO, . MY NAME IS PAM POHO. I RESIDE AT 1 0 3 KIMBERLY COURT, YORKTOWN, THE EMPERORS START NAKED AND MANY ARE TOO BLIND TO SEE IT. TRUMP SAID, WHAT YOU'RE SEEING AND WHAT YOU'RE READING IS NOT WHAT'S HAPPENING. THIS IS HOW HIS LODGE THRIVE. IGNORING REALITY. AND THE TRUTH TRUMP'S EXCUSE FOR ALL THE VIOLENT ICE GESTAPO LIKE ABDUCTIONS ATTACKING THE HOMELESS, ADDICTED AND MENTALLY ILL IN DC IS THAT HE IS CURBING CRIME. A BALL FACED FLY. THE MAJORITY OF THE ARRESTS ARE A PEOPLE WITH NO CRIMINAL RECORD. HE IS DEPORTING US CITIZENS AND THOSE WITH VALID VISAS. HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THE VIOLENT TAKEDOWNS OF PEACEFUL PEOPLE? BY MASKED UNIDENTIFIED THUGS? BEING HOMELESS OR SICK IS NOW A CRIME IN TRUMP WORLD. WHEN YOU LOSE YOUR JOB, BECAUSE TRUMP IS ON A FIRING SPREE, LOSE HEALTH INSURANCE AND CAN'T AFFORD THE RENT. AS YOUR BILLS PILE UP, YOU CAN BECOME HOMELESS. THE REAL CRIMINALS CAN BE FOUND AT 1600 PENNSYLVANIA AVENUE. TRUMP PLANS TO IMPOSE MARTIAL LAW ON OTHER BLUE CITIES WHILE IGNORING STATES RED STATES WITH THE HIGHEST CRIME RATES. TRUMP DOES NOT BELIEVE IN THE RULE OF LAW, ONLY THE RULE OF TRUMP. HE IS SUPPRESSING THE VOTE OF DEMOCRATS REMOVING HISPANICS, REWRITING HISTORY, GUTTING EDUCATION, KILLING SCIENCE AND RESEARCH, FINANCING POLLUTION, SUPPRESSING THE MEDIA, ATTACKING THE ARTS, CRIPPLING MEDICAID AND SNAP BENEFITS, AND PROMOTING BIGOTRY. AND THIS IS JUST THE BEGINNING. TRUMP JUST RE REPATRIATED A VENEZUELAN NATIONAL NATURALIZED AMERICAN CITIZEN WHO WAS IN A VENEZUELAN PRISON FOR STABBING MURDER OF THREE PEOPLES. HE IS NOW WALKING FREE ON THE STREETS OF ORLANDO. GHISLAINE MAXWELL, CONVICTED OF CHILD SEXUAL TRAFFICKING, SEXUAL ASSAULT OF MINORS AND PERJURY WAS MOVED TO A CLUB FED PRISON BECAUSE EVEN CHILD RAPISTS DESERVE BETTER LIVING CONDITIONS THAN A MAXIMUM MAXIMUM SECURITY PRISON. DON'T THEY? WAS THIS HER REWARD FOR AGREEING TO LIE ABOUT TRUMP'S CULPABILITY, HER WILLINGNESS TO ACCUSE ONLY DEMOCRATS OF PEDOPHILIA OR A POSSIBLE PARDON? TRUMP HAS FIRED INSPECTORS GENERAL IN MOST AGENCIES. SO THERE IS NO ONE LEFT TO ADDRESS FRAUD AND ABUSE IN GOVERNMENT. HE IS IGNORING FACTUAL DATA THAT HE DOES NOT LIKE. AND FIRING THOSE WHO SPEAK THE TRUTH. TRUMP HAS TAKEN BRIBES AND TRIBUTES FROM FOREIGN GOVERNMENTS AND CASH PURCHASE OF HIS MEME, COINS AND CRYPTOCURRENCY FAST TRACKED REAL ESTATE DEALS AND THE QATARI PLANE SINCE JANUARY, HE HAS INCREASED HIS NET WORTH BY $3 BILLION SO MUCH FOR THE EMOLUMENTS CLAUSE. BUT THEN WHEN DID THE CONSTITUTION MEAN ANYTHING TO TRUMP? OUR MOTTO, E PLURIBUS UNUM SHOULD BE REPLACED WITH, SUCK UP AND PAY UP. IN THE 2020 ELECTION, TRUMP UNSUCCESSFUL ORDERED GE GEORGIA TO FIND HIM 11,780 VOTES. NOW HE IS OPENLY RIGGING THE 2026 ELECTION BY DEMANDING TEXAS GERRYMANDERING DISTRICTS TO GAIN FIVE MORE REPUBLICAN CONGRESSIONAL SEATS. HE WILL NOT STOP WITH TEXAS. SO WHY DO SO MANY PEOPLE CONTINUE TO WORSHIP THIS CONVICTED FELON AND SEXUAL ASSAULTER? WELL, IF YOU WANNA SUCCEED OR SURVIVE IN HIS WORLD, GETTING DOWN ON YOUR KNEES, SWEARING FE AND KISSING HIS GLORIOUS POSTERIOR IS A START. I WANT TO KNOW, IS DESTROYING AMERICA REALLY WORTH IT? THANK YOU. THANK YOU. UH, THE NEXT PERSON I HAVE IS HEATHER HARMON. HEATHER, WHERE ARE YOU? OH, I'M [00:45:01] DONE. OKAY. NAME AND ADDRESS PLEASE. THREE MINUTES. GIVE MY TIME. TAKE A BIT MORE MADAM CHAIRMAN AND THE REST OF THE BOARD. I ACTUALLY LIVE IN JAMES CITY COUNTY, BUT I AM VERY DELIGHTED THAT I GET TO WORK IN YORK COUNTY. AND WHAT AN INCREDIBLE NIGHT TO BE HERE WITH ALL THE RECOGNITION. SO MY NAME IS HEATHER HARMON. I AM ACTUALLY HERE, UM, FOR MR. HORO. HE WAS A WONDERFUL HUMAN BEING. I STAND AS THE ALZHEIMER'S WALK CHAIRMAN AND ALSO A BOARD OF DIRECTOR FOR THE SOUTHEASTERN, UH, CHAPTER OF THE ALZHEIMER'S BOARD. MR. HURO STEPPED UP AND SAID, I WILL RAISE $500. AND I SAID, THEN I WILL SMASH A PIE IN YOUR FACE. SO THAT IS WHAT WE ARE HERE TO DO, . AND I'LL TRY AND DO IT IN FIVE MINUTES OR LESS, OR THREE MINUTES OR LESS. BUT DO WE HAVE ANY CAMERAS? I HAD A PARENT WHO SUFFERED FROM, UH, DEMENTIA ALZHEIMER'S. SO IT IT'S PERSONAL FOR ME. THAT'S, THAT'S WHY I'VE STEPPED FORWARD AND WE APPRECIATE THAT VERY MUCH. SO OUR WALK WHILE HE'S GETTING DOWN HERE IS ON OCTOBER 25TH. WE ARE 27% OF THE WAY TO OUR $260,000 GOAL THIS YEAR. SO WE'RE PRETTY EXCITED. THAT'S A GOOD PLUG. , I'M PROTECTING THE FLOOR. . OKAY. YOU DID BRING ONE. OKAY. YOU GOT MY FIRST READY. OKAY. DO I GET THE CHAIRMAN A BIG HUG ONCE I GET THIS, THIS WHAT YOU DO AFTER I DO THIS, SIR, IS ALL UP TO YOU. I WOULD RECOMMEND YOU RUN. THANK YOU, SIR. MR. HORO, I THINK IS GOING TO GET A PIE IN THE FACE. YES MA'AM. BUT GO AHEAD. GO AHEAD. IT'S NOT A REAL GO FOR IT. IT'S WHIPPED CREAM OR IS IT SHAVING CREAM? IT, YOU MADE ME QUESTION MYSELF. . ANYWAY, IT'S FOR A GOOD CAUSE, RIGHT? BECAUSE HE HAS A LITTLE BIT OF MEETING LEFT. I DECIDED JUST REVIEW IT, BUT OH, I HOPE HE ENJOYS EATING IT TOO. , KEEP GOING. OH, THAT LOOKS LIKE A GOOD PIE. OKAY. NO SIR. THAT'S NOT THE CAMERA'S READY. ONE READY DOWN. THREE. YEAH. 2, 2, 3, 3. GO. DON'T, DON'T HESITATE. NOW, SHO TERRY HALL JUST WALKED IN WONDERING WHAT DOES THIS HAPPENED UP, UP FRONT. , I COULD ANSWER THIS , WHAT A WONDERFUL CAUSE. AND YOU KNOW, WE DEPEND SO MUCH ON OUR NON-PROFITS TO PROVIDE FOR OUR PEOPLE. SO IF YOU HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY EVER, OR, OR YOU SHOULD HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY MANY TIMES TO CONTRIBUTE TO THE NONPROFITS BECAUSE AGAIN, THAT HELPS TO MAKE THE COUNTY GOOD AND IT HELPS THE PEOPLE WHO NEED IT. SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THE WORK THAT YOU DO FOR THE ALZHEIMER'S. MY PLEASURE. THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT. , ARE YOU ALL KIND? YEAH. OH, I'M PERFECT. . I'M GLAD YOU'RE PERFECT. IF WE GET THEM ANOTHER 500, I'LL COME DO OKAY. . OKAY. I, WE'RE DOWN TO, UH, COUNTY ATTORNEY REPORTS. MR. HILL, DO YOU HAVE ANY? NOTHING THIS EVENING, MA'AM. THANK YOU. OKAY. CROSS THAT OFF. [COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR REPORTS AND REQUESTS] COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR'S REPORTS. MS. NOLL, THANK YOU. I DO HAVE A COUPLE ITEMS FOR YOU TONIGHT. UH, FIRST OF ALL, I THOUGHT WE MIGHT SPEND A SECOND AND TALK ABOUT HURRICANE ERIN. YES, PLEASE. UH, WE'RE, WE, UH, ARE EXPECTING, UH, TO GET A LITTLE WEATHER OUT OF THIS ON, WE STARTING WEDNESDAY NIGHT INTO THURSDAY, AND BY FRIDAY, UH, WE SHOULD BE, UH, MUCH BETTER OFF. BUT WE ARE LOOKING AT SOME HIGH TIDES. IT APPEARS RIGHT NOW, LAST TIME I CHECKED PROBABLY THURSDAY AFTERNOON IN THE FIVE TO FIVE AND A HALF FOOT RANGE, WHICH IS SOMEWHERE BETWEEN MODERATE HIGH HIGH. SO BECAUSE OF THAT, WE, UH, HAVE OPENED THE MAC AND CHISMAN TO PARKING FOR RVS AND BOATS. SO SOME OF OUR FOLKS THAT HAVE, THEY'RE LIVING IN SOME OF THE LOWER LYING AREAS THAT HAVE OPPORTUNITY TO PROTECT THEIR PROPERTY. UH, WHAT WE DO ASK IS ONCE [00:50:01] THAT HAPPENS IS THAT THEY HAVE THEM REMOVED BY SATURDAY AT FOUR O'CLOCK. OBVIOUSLY AT THE MAC, WE HAVE A LOT GOING ON THERE. SO IT WOULD BE, UH, VERY HELPFUL IF THEY COULD DO THAT FOR US. SO WE APPRECIATE THAT. THE SECOND THING I WANTED TO SHARE WITH YOU TONIGHT IS I, I BELIEVE IT'S FAIRLY COMMON KNOWLEDGE NOW THAT DR. SHANDOR HAS SUBMITTED HIS RESIGNATION. AND I WOULD PERSONALLY LIKE TO TAKE AN OPPORTUNITY TO THANK HIM FOR EVERYTHING HE'S DONE. ALL HIS SUPPORT FOR COUNTY ADMIN, YORK COUNTY, THE THINGS HE'S DONE WITH THE SCHOOLS. HE HAS DONE A WONDERFUL JOB. BLUE RIBBON SCHOOLS, ALL KINDS OF ACADEMIC ACHIEVEMENTS. HE HAS A LOT TO BE PROUD OF, AND WE'RE VERY PLEASED THAT WE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO WORK WITH HIM. LOOK FORWARD TO HEARING WHAT HIS TRANSITION PLAN IS WHEN ONCE THAT'S ACTUALLY PUT TOGETHER. BUT I DID WANNA TAKE THE OPPORTUNITY TO THANK HIM. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I THINK ON BEHALF OF THE BOARD, UH, YOUR SENTIMENTS WILL DESERVE FOR DR. SHANDOR. IT'S ALWAYS HARD WHEN PEOPLE RETIRE BECAUSE YOU WANNA KEEP THEM FOREVER AND EVER, BUT THEY HAVE LIVES TO LIVE THEIR OWN. AND, UH, WHEN ONE DOOR CLOSES, ANOTHER ONE OPENS, OR IS IT ONE WINDOW AND ANOTHER WINDOW REGARDLESS. UH, DR. SHAND HAS DONE A WONDERFUL, WONDERFUL JOB FOR OUR STUDENTS. WE HAVE AN EXCELLENT REPUTATION IN VIRGINIA FOR THE EDUCATION THAT WE PROVIDE OUR CHILDREN. AND THE COUNTY HAS ALWAYS BEEN VERY, VERY SUPPORTIVE OF, OF THE SCHOOLS BECAUSE WE KNOW HOW IMPORTANT IT IS TO OUR FAMILIES AND TO THE TEACHERS AND TO THE PARENTS. AND I, I GUESS I'M REALLY VERY SORRY THAT HE'S NOT GONNA STAY WITH US, BUT I THANK HIM VERY, VERY MUCH FOR ALL THE TIME THAT HE SPENT WITH US AND ALL THAT HE'S BEEN ABLE TO ACCOMPLISH IN THOSE YEARS. THANK YOU. AND I, I DO HAVE ONE OTHER ITEM. I DO NEED A LITTLE GUIDANCE FROM THE BOARD. UH OH. UM, AS YOU MAY REMEMBER, A FEW MEETINGS AGO, WE, UH, TOOK TITLE TO A PROPERTY RIGHT NEXT TO WALGREENS AT THE CORNER OF 17 AND GOODWIN NECK ROAD. YES. UM, IT HAS BEEN SUGGESTED THAT THAT MIGHT BE A GOOD PLACE FOR A COMMUNITY SIGN, ELECTRIC SIGN, YOU KNOW, THAT WOULD, WE COULD BROADCAST DIFFERENT THINGS LIKE, LIKE THE STORM. UH, WE COULD TALK ABOUT, UH, PARKS AND REC EVENTS THAT BEN TALKED ABOUT EARLIER. THERE ARE A NUMBER OF THINGS WE COULD DO WITH THAT, BUT I WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT I HAD THE WHOLE BOARD'S, UH, INTEREST IN DOING THAT BEFORE WE PROCEEDED. IT'S A GOOD IDEA. I'D LIKE TO SEE THE DESIGN. SURE. WE CAN DO THAT BEFORE WE, WE MOVE FORWARD WITH IT. BUT I, BUT I THINK IT, IT'S ALWAYS GOOD TO GET INFORMATION OUT TO PEOPLE. I JUST DON'T, I THINK WE ALL NEED TO THINK ABOUT IT. A NICE GOOD LOOKING SIGN. NOT ABSOLUTELY. WE WOULDN'T DO ANYTHING LESS. RIGHT. YOU KNOW, THE ONE ON THE WHEELS YOU CAN PULL UP THERE AND . I THINK WE WERE HOPING FOR SOMETHING A LITTLE MORE PERMANENT, BUT, UH, LIKE, LIKE YOU SAID, IT WOULD BE IDEAL RIGHT NOW. LET PEOPLE KNOW THAT THE THE MAC IS AVAILABLE FOR CORRECT. FOR THEIR PROPERTY. SO. CORRECT. THAT'S A GREAT IDEA. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. MR. SNO. [MATTERS PRESENTED BY THE BOARD] BOARD COMMENTS, WHO WOULD LIKE TO GO FOR TOM? UH, I JUST LIKE TO ASK A QUESTION OF, UH, WHAT MR. BELLA FIRST. OKAY. MAY, SO AT THE LAST MEETING WE HAD SOME DISCUSSIONS ABOUT FENTON MILL, BUT CAN YOU GIVE US AN UPDATE ON THAT? UM, I BELIEVE MR. ASHWORTH IS HERE AND I TOLD HIM TO, UH, BE PREPARED TO TALK ABOUT THAT. SO HE WILL DO THAT. UH, EVERYONE'S FAMILIAR, I BELIEVE, WITH THE SITUATION, SO I WON'T GO INTO THAT. THE, WHAT WE'RE IN RIGHT NOW IS WEEK ONE OF A TWO WEEK SCHEDULED, UM, CORRECTIVE ACTION FOR THE CONTRACTOR. SO THE CONTRACTOR IS STARTED THIS WEEK, FRIDAY, WE WERE GOING TO TOUCH BASE. OUR INSPECTORS WILL GO DOWN THERE TO SEE, THEY HAVE CERTAIN ITEMS THAT HAVE TO BE COMPLETED THIS WEEK, AND THEN THE REST OF 'EM ARE COMPLETED NEXT WEEK. SO THAT'S KIND OF WHERE WE ARE NOW. UM, THERE WAS A, UM, CONTRACTOR'S BEEN COOPERATIVE, I WILL SAY THAT, THAT I'VE HEARD FROM, FROM OUR INSPECTORS. THE CONTRACTOR DID WORK WITH A CITIZEN ON GETTING SOME TREES DOWN OVER ON INDIANA OR OUT NO. INDIANA ROAD. UM, AND THAT CAUSED A LITTLE COMMOTION FOR MR. HORO. I UNDERSTAND. SO I I THINK THAT WILL, UH, UM, THAT THAT WAS A, HOPEFULLY THAT'S A, THE ONE TIME THING. AND THE CONTRACTOR UNDERSTANDS THAT THAT'S A, THAT WAS JUST FOR THE, THEY WERE WORKING WITH THE CITIZEN AND, AND THE COUNTY TRYING TO, TO, TO GET SOME THINGS DONE. AND THAT WAS THEIR BEST ACCESS POINT. BUT FOR THE REST OF THE DEVELOPMENT, THAT'S NOT GONNA BE THE CASE. UM, WE'RE LOOKING, [00:55:01] GONNA MEET WITH VDOT ABOUT PUTTING SOME JERSEY BARRIERS UP AT THE END OF THAT STREET TO, UH, LIMIT THAT OR TO NO ACCESS FROM INDIANA TO FENTON MILL. I THINK THAT'S ALL. SO I HAD TWO ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS RELATED TO THAT. WHAT HAVE WE DONE IN TERMS OF EDUCATION OF OUR OWN TEAM SO THAT WE DON'T GET INTO A SITUATION WHERE WE'VE GOT THAT NUMBER OF VIOLATIONS AND HAVE TO TAKE DRACONIAN ACTION AGAINST A DEVELOPER? YEAH. I'VE, UM, AND, AND WHERE ARE WE ON THE REST OF THE CONSTRUCTION PROJECTS WITHIN YORK COUNTY? HAVE WE GONE OUT AND SURVEYED THOSE? ARE WE SATISFIED THAT WE ON TOP OF THE ISSUES IN EACH OF THOSE OTHER AREAS? YES, SIR. AND THEN WE'RE NOT GONNA SEE A REPEAT. YES SIR. WE ARE. UH, UM, IT'S KIND OF THE OTHER SIDE OF THE SHOP FROM WHERE I'M, I'VE, I'VE GOT ONE HALF OF PUBLIC WORKS AND OUR OTHER, UH, DEPUTY DIRECTOR HAS THE OTHER HALF. BUT, UM, THEY ARE, UH, IN MEETINGS AND I KNOW THAT THEY, WE HAVE, UM, THEY HAVE BEEN EDUCATED AND THEY, THEY KNOW TO, UM, WHERE WE'RE GOING FROM HERE ON OUT. YEAH. THIS IS NOT, NOT A POSITION THE BOARD WANTS TO GET ITSELF INTO. YES, SIR. SO WE REALLY NEED, WE REALLY NEED FOR STAFF TO UNDERSTAND THE SEVERITY AND DO THE JOB OF, OF REPORTING TIMELY AND GETTING CORRECTIONS MADE. YES, SIR. THANK YOU. AND MR. ASHWORTH, I'VE, I'VE GOT SOME, SOME DISCUSSION WITH SOME OF THE NEIGHBORS TOO. THEY'RE KIND OF THINKING LIKE, UH, MR. RO IS THINKING, WELL, HOW DO WE PREVENT THIS IN THE FUTURE? WHAT IF A DEVELOPMENT LIKE THIS COMES NEAR WHERE WE LIVE? ARE WE VULNERABLE TO THAT AS WELL? SO IT'D BE VERY INTERESTED TO HEAR THE CORRECTIVE ACTION THAT YOU GUYS WILL BE PUTTING IN PLACE FOR THAT GOING FORWARD. SO YES, SIR. YEAH. THANKS. YEAH, AND I, I'D LIKE TO SAY SOME THINGS ABOUT THAT AS WELL. UM, YEAH, I CERTAINLY THINK THAT THERE OUGHT TO BE SOME KIND OF RECOMMENDATIONS OF A PERIODIC INSPECTION, NOT A CALLED INSPECTION, UH, ON A LARGE PROJECT LIKE THAT. ESPECIALLY IN THE RAINY SEASON, UH, WHEN THERE'S A LOT OF RAIN AND SILT FENCES GET KNOCKED DOWN AND NEVER GET PUT BACK UP. MUD GETS ON ROADS AND STUFF LIKE THAT. UH, THAT WOULD BE A HUGE CONCERN FOR ME THAT WE NEED TO STAY ON TOP OF THAT. LIKE MR. ROY SAID, 79 VIOLATIONS IS UNACCEPTABLE AND WE SHOULD NEVER HAVE PUT OURSELF IN THAT POSITION. MY UNDERSTANDING IS THE SAME CONTRACTORS DOING THE PROJECT IN LACKEY. YES. AND I HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO RIDE THROUGH THERE, BUT I UNDERSTAND THERE ARE SOME ISSUES THERE. SO I DON'T KNOW IF YOU GUYS HAVE INSPECTED THAT OUR, OUR INSPECTORS ARE ON TOP OF THAT. OKAY. AND WORKING WITH, UH, YEAH, THE SAME DEVELOPER. OKAY. WORKING, WORKING WITH THEM ON THAT. YES, SIR. ALRIGHT. VERY GOOD. THANK YOU. OKAY. THANK YOU. ANYBODY ELSE? THANK YOU MR. GOLDMAN. THANK YOU, SCOTT. YEAH, I JUST WANTED TO, UH, REMIND FOLKS, UM, THAT MICROPHONE, UH, MONDAY THE 25TH IS WHEN SCHOOL STARTS. UM, AND EVERY, EVERY YEAR, UM, WE, THERE'S A LOT OF CONFUSION. NOT A LOT. THERE IS SOME CONFUSION, UH, THE NORMAL TRAVEL ROUTES THAT PEOPLE HAVE TO AND FROM, UH, THE AREA GET REALLY CONGESTED. UM, AND DOWN OUR WAY ON, AGAIN, ONE OF MY FAVORITE SUBJECTS IS 17 IN, IN VICTORY BOULEVARD AND 1 34 IN VICTORY BOULEVARD IN YORKTOWN ROAD. UM, WITH ALL THE CONSTRUCTION GOING ON. UM, AND YOU PUT A SCHOOL IN, IN, UH, UH, ACTIVITIES, BUSES, TRYING TO GET ACROSS THE, THE MAJOR THOROUGH AFFAIRS AND, UH, AND ALL THE PARENTS PICKING UP THEIR KIDS AND, AND ALL THAT. IT JUST, IT REALLY CAUSES A JAM UP. ONE OF THE THING YOU'VE GOTTA DO IS BE PATIENT. UM, LAST, I THINK IT WAS LAST YEAR, UM, A A PARENT, UM, GOT VERY IMPATIENT AT A SCHOOL IN A, UM, AT THE SCHOOL AND DECIDED THAT HE WAS GONNA GET OUT OF THE LINE AND GET TO THE, GET OUT OF THE, AWAY FROM SCHOOL FAST AS HE COULD. UH, IN THE PROCESS OF DOING THAT, HE SNAGGED THE STUDENT AND DRUGGED THE STUDENT AWAY DOWN THE ROAD. OKAY. UH, I'M NOT SURE HOW HE STOPPED, BUT I, I CAN IMAGINE PEOPLE SCREAMING AND HOLLERING, WAVING THEIR ARMS AND, AND THEY FINALLY STOPPED HIM. BUT THE STUDENT SURVIVED WITH A SIGNIFICANT ROAD RASH. WE DO NOT NEED THAT IMPATIENCE AROUND OUR CHILDREN. UM, WE HAVE ABOUT 13,000 KIDS THAT'LL BE GOING TO SCHOOL. UM, WE GOT SOME NEW BUS DRIVERS. EVERYBODY'S TRYING TO DO THE JOB. WE GOT SOME NEW, NEW SCHOOLERS, IF YOU WILL, CATCHING THE BUS FOR THE FIRST TIME. THE FIRST GRADERS TRYING TO GET BACK AND FORTH. UH, SO THERE'S GONNA BE A LOT OF, THERE'S SOME CONFUSION. IT'S JUST ALWAYS HAPPENS. HAVE SOME PATIENCE 'CAUSE THERE'S, 'CAUSE UH, YOU JUST, IT DOES, IT'S NOT WORTH HAVING THESE ACCIDENTS. OKAY. SO, UH, WE'VE GOT A PRETTY GOOD RECORD OF DOING THAT. AND, UM, I'D JUST LIKE FOR US TO CONTINUE TO DO IT. SO BE AWARE MONDAY IS WHEN IT'S GONNA START. NOW THE SCHOOL WILL GO FOR ABOUT FOUR DAYS AND THEN THEY'RE GONNA HAVE A FOUR DAY, UH, BREAK. IT STARTED FEB IN, UH, ON FRIDAY. SO, UM, YOU GET A CHANCE TO KIND OF MAKE UP FOR ANYTHING YOU FORGOT TO DO DURING [01:00:01] THE SUMMER. UH, AND THEN YOU ENJOY YOURSELF. BUT PLEASE BE PATIENT OUT THERE AND BE COURTEOUS. UH, GIVE, GIVE, GIVE WAY, UH, WHEN IT, WHEN IT'S NOT NECESSARY TO KIND OF ELBOW YOUR WAY UP FRONT. OKAY. THAT'S IT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, STEVEN. YES, THANK YOU. UM, SO I'M GONNA PIVOT A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE I WAS SO STRUCK BY THE VOLUNTEER HOURS FROM MRS. OWENS. I WAS TRYING TO WRAP MY HEAD AROUND WHAT THAT REALLY LOOKS LIKE. SO 2200 HOURS IN, I KNOW, 2024. SO I DID, I DID A LITTLE BIT OF QUICK MATH AND THERE ARE A TOTAL OF 8,760 HOURS IN A YEAR. AND IF YOU FIGURE THAT SHE MIGHT NEED EIGHT HOURS OF SLEEP ON GIVEN NIGHT, THAT TAKES AWAY 2,900 HOURS. YOU LIVE, LIVE ABOUT 5,840 HOURS OF FREE TIME FOR VOLUNTEERING. AND WAS SHE INVESTED 2200 YES. HOURS OF, SO THAT CAME TO, OH, WHERE'S MY LIKE 30, ALMOST 38% OF HER, UH, FOR FREE TIME WENT TO VOLUNTEER HOURS. AND THAT, THAT IS REMARKABLE. THAT IS A HUGE IMPACT. AND I JUST APPLAUD HER. AND I DIDN'T WANNA LEAVE HERE TONIGHT WITHOUT KIND OF HIGHLIGHTING THAT. 'CAUSE THAT IS, THAT, THAT'S A REMARKABLE ACHIEVEMENT. AND IT'S NOT SURPRISING BECAUSE YORK COUNTY IS SUCH A GIVEN COMMUNITY, A LOT OF VOLUNTEERS HERE IN THE COMMUNITY, A LOT OF PEOPLE GIVING BACK ALL ACROSS THE BOARD, YOU KNOW, WORKING WITH THE FOLKS ON THE YMC ADVISORY BOARD, DIFFERENT YOUTH LEAGUES AND SO FORTH THAT JUST SEE VOLUNTEER HOURS, AFTER HOURS, AFTER HOURS. SO IT'S, IT'S NOT SURPRISING, BUT THAT, THAT'S AN ENORMOUS ACHIEVEMENT. AND I JUST KIND OF WANTED TO TRY TO FRAME THAT UP A LITTLE BIT. SO CONGRATULATIONS TO HER ON THAT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR DOING THAT. DO I? YEAH. SO SADLY TO SAY, I HAVE TO BEG YOUR INDULGENCE TO PAY TRIBUTE TO A VERY SPECIAL GUY IN MY LIFE. UM, AS YOU KNOW, UH, LAST MONTH WE LOST MY FATHER-IN-LAW. AND LAST FRIDAY WE LOST MY DAD. UM, THAT ONE'S HARD. MY FATHER-IN-LAW WAS LIKE A SECOND DAD, BUT, UM, MY DAD ALWAYS CALLED HIM MY GENTLE GIANT. UM, IF YOU EVER HEARD, UH, THE COMMERCIALS BY EF HUTTON, WHEN EF HUTTON SPEAKS, YOU LISTEN. AND THAT WAS ALWAYS MY DAD. AND HE NEVER MET A STRANGER. HE CARED ABOUT EVERYBODY. HE LOVED HIS GRANDKIDS, HIS KIDS, HIS GREAT GRANDKIDS. HE WAS AT EVERY BALL GAME. EVERY ONE OF MY WRESTLING MATCHES. IF HE WASN'T CO, IF HE WASN'T AT WORK, I HAD 15 YEARS OF WORKING WITH HIM AT THE OIL REFINERY AND HE WAS ON SWING SHIFT AND I WAS ON DAYS. SO EVERY, EVERY CHANCE THAT WE WERE ON SHIFT TOGETHER, I WOULD, I EITHER GO SEE HIM OR HE'D COME SEE ME. AND THEN WHEN I LEFT THE OIL REFINERY, I STARTED MY CONSTRUCTION BUSINESS AND HE RETIRED AND HE GOES, HEY, I NEED SOMETHING TO DO. SO HE WORKED FOR ME FOR 20 YEARS AND DIDN'T TAKE A PAYCHECK, WOULDN'T TAKE A DIME. SO I GAVE HIM A CREDIT CARD AND SAID, KEEP YOUR TRUCK MAINTAINED AND KEEP GAS IN IT. AND HE WOULD RIDE FROM JOB SITE TO JOB SITE AND CHECK ON ALL THE CONTRACTORS AND MAKE SURE THEY GOT WHAT THEY NEED. AND IT JUST GAVE HIM SOMETHING TO DO. HE WAS ALWAYS A WORKER. HARD, HARD, HARD WORKER. I'VE NEVER KNOWN HIM TO BE ANY, NO ONE ELSE TO BE ANY HARDER WORKER THAN HIM. BUT HE'S TRULY MY HERO. HE WILL BE MISSED. BUT I KNOW HE'S IN A MUCH BETTER PLACE NOW. HE IS ALMOST 93 YEARS OLD UNTIL ABOUT A YEAR AGO HE WAS COMPLETELY HEALTHY DRIVING AROUND YORK COUNTY IN HIS BLUE DODGE PICKUP, STOPPING AT EVERY, EVERY PLACE HE COULD STOP TO TALK TO SOMEBODY. 'CAUSE HE WAS A FRIENDLY GUY AND HE WAS VERY GENTLE AND VERY KIND AND VERY COMPASSIONATE AND PROBABLY UNDOUBTEDLY THE MOST HONEST MAN I'VE EVER MET IN MY LIFE. SO, UM, I THANK YOU FOR THAT. THANK YOU DOUG. MADAM. I'M SURE I HAVE, UH, TWO TOPICS FOR THE BOARD. UM, AS YOU RECALL, UH, WE HAD A DISCUSSION IN OUR AUGUST WORKSHOP ON RESILIENCY. AND LAST NIGHT THE TEAM PRESENTING RAFT, WHICH IS RESILIENCE ADAPTION FEASIBILITY TOOL, HELD THE PUBLIC MEETING AT JCC UH, REC CENTER. UM, I ATTENDED ALONG WITH ABOUT 18, ROUGHLY 18 YORK COUNTY RESIDENTS AND STAFF. SO IT WAS VERY GOOD TURNOUT FOR YORK COUNTY. UH, YOU WILL RECALL THAT YORK COUNTY HAD ESTABLISHED TWO PRIORITIES, NAMELY TO ADAPT THE SEA LEVEL RISE PROJECTIONS AND INCORPORATE 'EM INTO OUR FLOOD RESILIENCE PLAN, UH, AND MOVE THE, UH, COUNTY'S FEMA RATING FROM CLASS SEVEN TO CLASS SIX. AND THEN TO ADDITIONALLY ALIGN OUR CIP WITH, UH, PRESERVATION ACTIONS, INCLUDING FEASIBILITY STUDIES IN OUR EXISTING PROGRAMS. THE PURPOSE OF LAST NIGHT WAS TO GET PUBLIC INPUT ON WHAT OTHER PRIORITIES WOULD YOU BRING FORWARD TO THE, TO THE COUNTY. AND THE GROUP CAME UP WITH I THINK, THREE VERY GOOD RECOMMENDATIONS. IT WAS MAP AND MAINTAIN AN UPDATED INVENTORY OF FLOOD CONTROL STRUCTURES AND DEVELOP GUIDANCE ON FLOOD RISK AND MAINTENANCE. MITIGATION STRATEGIES, UM, TO CONSIDER PROVIDING ADDITIONAL INCENTIVES LIKE [01:05:01] EXPEDITED PERMITTING FOR DEVELOPMENT THAT INCORPORATE RESILIENCE STRATEGIES OR A STORMWATER CREDIT FOR PROPERTY OWNERS WHO MAINTAIN, UM, OR BUILD ELIGIBLE NATURAL AND NATURE-BASED FEATURES. AND THE THIRD WAS TO OFFER FUND MATCHING OR TAX INCENTIVE PROGRAMS FOR HOMEOWNERS AND BUSINESS OWNERS TO PARTICIPATE IN LANDSCAPING BASED PROJECTS. MM-HMM . GOOD. I THOUGHT IT WAS A VERY GOOD SUMMARY OF THE MEETING. AND, UH, THREE REALLY SOLID PRIOR PRIORITIES BROUGHT FORWARD BY THE CITIZENS. GREAT. SECOND ITEM I HAD WAS, UM, A LOT OF DISCUSSION, UH, WITH FOLKS, PARTICULARLY THE QUEENS LAKE AREA ON THE HUBBARD PENMAN INTERSECTION ISSUES. , OKAY. AROUND MCGRUDER. LIEUTENANT REDCLIFFE IS BACK THERE AT THE BACK, AND HE'S COME UP WITH A RECOMMENDATION THAT WE, UH, REVERT BACK TO THE WAY THE STREET SIGNS USED TO BE AT PENMAN AND HUBBARD WITH, UH, STRAIGHT THROUGH ON PENMAN AND THE STOP SIGN ON HUBBARD. BUT THAT WE HAD ONE DEPUTY AT THAT CORNER TO ASSIST DURING THE DROP OFF AND PICK UP TIMING. THAT, UH, RECOMMENDATION HAS BEEN FORWARDED TO, UH, UH, TO DR. SHANDOR AND DR. CAROL, AND THEY WILL EVALUATE AND GET BACK TO US. BUT I THINK THAT'S A, A REASONABLE APPROACH THAT PROBABLY, UH, IMPROVES THE TRAFFIC AT THAT SITU AT THAT CORNER. THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. UH, I'M GONNA TALK ABOUT THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY. UH, DOUG, DOUG AND I WITH SOME STAFF MET WITH THE, UH, CHAIRMAN AND VICE CHAIRMAN OF THE AUTHORITY THE OTHER DAY. AND WE'VE, WE'VE DECIDED THAT WE NEED MORE COMMUNICATION. WE ALWAYS TALK ABOUT COMMUNICATIONS, DON'T WE, IN THE COUNTY, BUT AT ANY RATE, WE'RE GOING TO GET TOGETHER, AT LEAST QUARTERLY, UH, TO SEE WHAT THEY'RE DOING AND HOW WE CAN HELP THEM. BUT, UH, THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR, UH, MR. BELLAMY CAME UP WITH A LIST THAT I'D LIKE TO SHARE A LITTLE BIT WITH YOU ALL. UM, AND I THINK IT'S REALLY SIGNIFICANT BECAUSE OFTENTIMES YOU HEAR COMMENTS, OH, THE COUNTY'S NOT DOING ANYTHING. ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT IS, YOU KNOW, NOT DOING ANYTHING AT ALL. AND ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE DOING AND REMEMBER BES AND EVERYTHING LIKE THAT. BUT LET ME TELL YOU, THEY DO AN AWFUL LOT. AND I WILL START WITH, UH, FY 24. IN FY 24, OVER $68,000 WERE GIVEN IN GRANTS. AND BECAUSE OF THAT, THE COUNTY RECEIVED ABOUT 64 AND A HALF THOUSAND 600 AND $464,000 WORTH OF PRIVATE INVESTMENT IN THE COUNTY. SO THAT'S A PLUS. THEN WHEN YOU GO TO FY 25, THE EDA AWARDED 45 GRANTS, WHICH WERE OVER 763,000, AND IT LEVERAGED UP TO 13,000,800 $20,432 IN PRIVATE INVESTMENT IN YOUR COUNTY BUSINESSES. AND THAT'S WHAT IT'S ALL ABOUT. SO THE, WHAT I REALLY WANT YOU ALL TO KNOW ABOUT IS THAT QUIET WORK IS ALWAYS BEING DONE LOOKING FOR MORE AND MORE BUSINESSES IN THE COUNTY. AND IT LOOKS, AFTER READING THESE FIGURES, IT LOOKS LIKE THAT OUR EDA AND OUR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY PEOPLE HAVE REALLY DOING A DARN PRETTY GOOD JOB FOR THE COUNTY. SO DON'T ALWAYS BELIEVE EVERYTHING THAT YOU READ ON SOCIAL MEDIA. UH, LOTS OF GRANTS, 20 23, 23 GRANTS, WHICH WERE THE 80,000. I MEAN, YOU LOOK AT ALL THAT THEY'VE DONE, AND THEY'RE CONTINUALLY LOOKING AT NEW THINGS. SOME OF THE GRANTS THEY GAVE TO IMPROVE THE LOOKING LOOK OF THE BUSINESSES, SOME OF THEM WERE E-COMMERCE GRANTS SO THAT THEY COULD SUPPORT NEW WEBSITE DEVELOPMENT, WHICH YOU WOULDN'T SEE, BUT IT WOULD HELP THE BUSINESS. THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS THAT AREN'T VISIBLE THAT ARE VERY IMPORTANT TO MOVING ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT FORWARD IN THE COUNTY. SO TAKE WITH A GRAIN OF SALT, WHAT YOU HEAR SOME OF THE NAYSAYERS IN THE COUNTY TALK ABOUT. AND I THINK THAT'S, THAT'S A VERY GOOD THING. AND I, AND I LOOK AT WHAT WE'VE DONE WITH THE VOLUNTEERS TONIGHT. LOOK AT, LOOK AT, LOOK AT THE INVESTMENT OF PERSONAL CAPITAL INTO MAKING THIS, WHAT A MARVELOUS COUNTY THAT IT IS. AND YOU COULD, THOSE OF YOU WHO VOLUNTEER, OR THOSE OF YOU WHO WORK IN VARIOUS FIELDS TO IMPROVE THE COUNTY, CAN BE VERY PROUD OF THE WORK THAT YOU DO. 'CAUSE WE'RE VERY PROUD OF THE WORK THAT YOU DO. BUT WE'RE THE BIG HEADS, WE'RE THE TALKING HEADS. YOU ARE THE ONES IN THE FIELDS. YOU ARE THE ONES WHO ARE DOING THE [01:10:01] WORK. AND I CAN'T TELL YOU HOW IMPORTANT WHAT YOU DO EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU TO MAKE THIS COUNTY WHAT IT IS TODAY. SO WITH THAT, WE'RE GONNA TAKE A QUICK BREAK. OKAY? OKAY. I THINK THIS MEETING IS BACK AS IN SESSION. AND THE FIRST [5. Application No. ZT-211-25, York County Planning Commission. Consider adoption of proposed Ordinance Number 25-21 to approve amendments to the Recreation Area Standards within Section 24.1-361, PDR – Planned Development-Residential District and Section 24.1-361.1, PDMU-Planned Development Mixed Use District, and also approving amendments to Section 24.1-402, Standards for Open Space Development (Cluster Techniques), York County Zoning Ordinance, York County Code. a. Memorandum from the County Administrator b. Excerpts from the minutes of the February 12 Planning Commission Work Session and the draft minutes of the July 9 Planning Commission Regular Meeting c. Maps of Vacant and Occupied Residentially Zoned Parcels d. Proposed Ordinance No. 25-21] ITEM WE HAVE IS PUBLIC HEARING APPLICATION ZT 2 11 25 FOR THE, FROM THE PLANNING COMMISSION. CAITLIN, YOU'VE GOT THIS ONE. THANK YOU SO MUCH. SO IN THIS APPLICATION, WE HAVE TWO BATCHES OF TEXT AMENDMENTS. WE'RE GONNA BE LOOKING AT ADJUSTING THE RECREATION REQUIREMENTS FOR PLANNED DEVELOPMENTS AND THE PERFORMANCE STANDARDS FOR OPEN SPACE CLUSTER DEVELOPMENT. SO I WANNA GIVE A LITTLE OUTLINE ABOUT HOW, WHAT WE'RE GONNA BE TALKING TONIGHT. AND AGAIN, THIS IS A PRETTY BIG TOPIC. SO WE'RE GONNA KIND OF BREAK IT DOWN INTO SOME PIECES OUTLINING WHAT WE'VE PROPOSED AND WHAT WENT BEHIND IT. UM, AND YOU'LL FORGIVE ME, I HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF A COLD, SO YOU MIGHT HEAR A BIT OF A SNIFF THERE OCCASIONALLY. SO THANK YOU FOR YOUR PATIENCE. TALK A A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND WHAT THAT PROCESS WAS. WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT, AGAIN, RECREATION REQUIREMENTS FOR PLAN DEVELOPMENTS, BACKGROUND AND WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING. THEN WE'RE GONNA GO INTO THE CHANGES FOR OPEN SPACE CLUSTER DEVELOPMENTS AND THE PERFORMANCE STANDARDS. BREAK DOWN, AGAIN, THE BACKGROUND OF, YOU KNOW, WHAT IS A CLUSTER SUBDIVISION. TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE STAFF ANALYSIS THAT WENT INTO ACTUALLY RESULTING IN THE PROPOSED AMENDMENTS. AND THEN WE'RE GONNA DO A LITTLE WRAP UP WITH THE CONCLUSION AND A RECOMMENDATION. SO THE FIRST DRAFT OF THESE REVISIONS WENT TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION OUT OF FEBRUARY 12TH WORK SESSION. THEY LOOKED AT WHAT WE HAD AND GAVE US A LOT OF REALLY GOOD FEEDBACK. SO WE TOOK THAT AND OVER THE NEXT COUPLE MONTHS, WE SYNTHESIZED IT, INCORPORATED IT INTO A FINAL VERSION, WHICH WE PRESENTED TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION AT PUBLIC HEARING LAST MONTH. THEY VOTED A FOUR ZERO WITH ONE ABSTAINING TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THOSE AMENDMENTS. SO I'M GONNA TALK A LITTLE BIT FIRST ABOUT, AGAIN, THE RECREATION REQUIREMENTS FOR PLAN DEVELOPMENTS. THESE LIVE IN SECTION 24 1, 360 1, AND 360 1 0.1 IN THE ZONING ORDINANCE. SO WOULD PROBABLY BE HELPFUL FOR YOU ALL. YOU HAVE YOUR DRAFT ORDINANCE THERE. IF YOU WANNA GO AHEAD, OPEN THAT UP. WE'RE GONNA GO TO THE SECOND PAGE, START HERE. AND IF YOU JUST WANNA FOLLOW ALONG AS I TALK ABOUT SOME OF OUR PROPOSED CHANGES. SO FOR THE BENEFIT OF THOSE WHO ARE AT THE MEETING TONIGHT, I WANNA JUST GIVE A LITTLE OVERVIEW OF WHAT ARE PLAN DEVELOPMENTS. SO WE HAVE TWO TYPES OF THOSE IN THE COUNTY. WE HAVE PLAN DEVELOPMENT RESIDENTIAL, WHICH IS COMMONLY ABBREVIATED AS PDR AND MIXED USE PLAN DEVELOPMENT, WHICH IS COMMONLY ABBREVIATED AS PDMU. ALL PLAN DEVELOPMENTS REQUIRE APPROVAL BY THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS. THEY'RE ALWAYS CONSIDERED BY THE PLANNING COMMISSION. THEY'RE ALWAYS APPROVED BY THE BOARD. WHAT THIS IS, IS, SO THERE, IT'S A DISTRICT THAT YOU ESSENTIALLY REZONE INTO. THE DEVELOPER WRITES AN ORDINANCE THAT'S SPECIFIC TO THAT PLANNED DEVELOPMENT. HOWEVER, WHILE EACH PD HAS ITS OWN UNIQUE ORDINANCE, THEY HAVE TO FOLLOW CERTAIN REQUIREMENTS THAT ARE IN THE ZONING ORDINANCE. AND ALL OF THEM HAVE TO FOLLOW THOSE SPECIFIC REQUIREMENTS. SO TONIGHT WE'RE GONNA BE TALKING ABOUT THOSE OPEN SPACE AND RECREATION REQUIREMENTS SPECIFICALLY. SO I'LL START OFF WITH PDR RESIDENTIAL PLAN DEVELOPMENT. SO WE LOOKED AT, OKAY, WHAT ARE THE OPEN SPACE REQUIREMENTS RIGHT NOW? WHAT ARE THE RECREATION REQUIREMENTS? AND SOME OF THE OTHER PIECES THAT GO INTO THAT 25% OF LAND AREA OF A PDR HAS TO BE CONSERVED OPEN SPACE. WE'RE NOT CHANGING THAT. WE ARE INCREASING THE REQUIRED RECREATIONAL AREA FROM 10% TO 15% OF THE LAND AREA OF THE DEVELOPMENT. YOU'LL SEE THERE IN E ONE THAT WE ALSO INCLUDED SOME CLARIFYING LANGUAGE. SO LAND FEATURES SUCH AS WETLANDS, STEEP SLOPES, LARGE UTILITY EASEMENTS CAN BE PART OF PRESERVED OPEN SPACE. BUT WE ADDED CLARIFYING LANGUAGE IN E TWO THAT CANNOT BE PART OF A RECREATIONAL AREA. YOU CANNOT RECREATE IN WETLANDS. YOU CAN'T RECREATE IN STEEP SLOPES. WE WANNA MAKE THAT CLEAR. AGAIN, THIS CAN BE PART OF AN OPEN SPACE THAT YOU'RE PRESERVING, BUT WE DON'T WANT THAT TO BE COUNTED AS RECREATIONAL AREA. CAN, CAN YOU TAKE A QUICK MOMENT? YES. AND, UM, SHARE WHAT RECREATIONAL AREA IS IN TERMS OF WHAT THE ORDINANCE IS? YEAH, ABSOLUTELY FINE. SO, SO WHAT WE'RE CALLING RECREATIONAL AREAS, AGAIN, THESE ARE THINGS THAT ARE GONNA CONTAIN YOUR RECREATIONAL FACILITIES AND AMENITIES. THESE ARE WHERE YOUR TRAILS ARE GOING TO BE. IF YOU HAVE OTHER, LIKE, AGAIN, AND WE TALK, I'LL TALK ABOUT THIS A LITTLE MORE, BUT THERE'S LIKE CERTAIN REQUIRED FACILITIES. UM, CURRENTLY WE HAVE THINGS LIKE POOLS, AND I'LL GET INTO THAT IN THE FUTURE. BUT AGAIN, THE RECREATION AREAS, LIKE, OKAY, THIS IS WHERE I'M DOING MY ACTIVE RECREATION. AND THEN THE OPEN SPACES, AGAIN, THOSE PRESERVED AREAS THAT ARE THE LARGER OF THE WHOLE. BUT, UH, BUT THE, MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT YOU CAN HAVE, USE YOUR OPEN SPACE AS RECREATIONAL AREA. YES. THE RECREATION AREA IS PART OF THE OPEN SPACE. [01:15:01] OKAY. SO CAN YOU HAVE A RECREATIONAL BUILDING ON AN OPEN SPACE TENNIS COURT? MM-HMM . YES. SWIMMING POOL. MM-HMM . ANYTHING ELSE? BUILDING? THERE'S A NUMBER OF FACILITIES, AND I ACTUALLY, I'M GETTING A LITTLE AHEAD OF MYSELF. ONE OF THE THINGS WE LOOKED AT IS, 'CAUSE YOU'RE RIGHT, WE HAD THESE LIKE REQUIRED FACILITIES AND WE'RE, WHAT WE KINDA LOOKED AT IS WE'RE GONNA LOOK AT CHANGING THAT UP A LITTLE BIT. AND SO, UM, IF YOU WANNA GIMME A FLU SIDE, I'M DIG INTO THAT. THE REASON I BRING IT UP IS BECAUSE A LOT OF TIMES THE, AND I'VE SEEN THIS OVER THE YEARS, SUPERVISORS GET CONFUSED. AND YOU TALK ABOUT OPEN SPACE, YOU EXPECT IT TO BE OPEN AND NOTHING IN IT. NO. AND SOMETIMES WHAT WE END UP IN OPEN, OPEN SPACE, WE SEE DRAINAGE BASINS, UM, I MEAN, I'M TALKING GO BACK TO SUGARBERRY IN, IN, IN RUNNING, MAN, THAT WAS OPEN SPACE. MM-HMM . UH, AND THEN PEOPLE WERE GOING, WAIT A MINUTE. YOU'RE CUTTING OUT ALL THE TREES. OPEN SPACE DOESN'T NECESSARILY COULD IT HAVE TREES IN IT? SO WE GET A LOT OF CONFUSION WITH OUR CITIZENS AND THE SUPERVISORS WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT OPEN SPACE AND THEN YOU GET DOWN TO NOW THIS THING CALLED RECREATIONAL SPACE. MM-HMM . YOU KNOW, HOW IT, HOW IT DIFFERS I THINK IS SORT OF WHAT YOU'RE KIND GETTING TO. THAT'S BECAUSE I WANT, YOU KNOW, HELP EVERY, CLARIFY EVERYBODY WHAT RECREATIONAL SPACE MEAN. 'CAUSE SOME PEOPLE THAT MAY MEAN A BALL FIELD. OTHER PEOPLE THAT MAY MEAN A TENNIS COURT. MM-HMM . OR WALKING TRAIL. SO PER THE ORDINANCE, WHAT IS A RECREATIONAL SPACE? SO THAT, AS WE TALK ABOUT THIS, EVERYBODY CAN FRAME UP THE CONVERSATION BASED ON WHAT THE ORDINANCE CALLS RECREATIONAL SPACE. SO TO PUT IT IN MY MIND THOUGH MM-HMM . IS RECREATIONAL SPACE OPEN SPACE. YES. IT'S PART OF THE OPEN. SO IT, OKAY. SO IT CAN COUNT AS PART OF THE DEVELOPERS OPEN SPACE REQUIREMENTS. MM-HMM . IT'S PART OF THEIR LIKE LARGER CALCULATION FOR THEIR OPEN SPACE. I MEAN, I'M NOT MAKING THIS DIFFICULT, I'M JUST SAYING YEAH. MM-HMM . THAT THERE IS A, WHERE YOU COME IN, BUILD A DEVELOPMENT MM-HMM . WE REQUIRE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF OPEN SPACE. YES. OKAY. AND IN THAT OPEN SPACE, YOU FIND THESE VARIOUS THINGS LIKE RECREATIONAL SPACE MM-HMM . WETLANDS, STUFF LIKE THAT. MM-HMM . BUT YOU COULD HAVE A CLUBHOUSE. YOU COULD HAVE A CLUBHOUSE. YES. IN THE OPEN SPACE. COULD BE, THAT WOULD BE AN AMENITY. MM-HMM . YEAH. CLUBHOUSE, RECREATION. YEAH. I THINK BUILDING, IF I MIGHT ADD OFFER, UM, THAT'S PART OF THE REASON WE ADD THIS WORD PRESERVED AND CONSERVED TO THE OPEN SPACE DEFINITION IS WE WANNA MAKE IT CLEAR THAT, AGAIN, YOUR OPEN SPACE ISN'T SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE ENTIRELY DEVELOPED. AND PULLING FROM DEVELOPED AREAS TO SAY, OKAY, THAT'S MY OPEN SPACE. WE WANNA HAVE CONSERVED NATURAL AREAS AS PART OF THE LARGER OPEN SPACE. WHICH IS WHY WE WANTED TO ADD SOME OF THAT CLARIFYING LANGUAGE IN THERE. SO IN THIS, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE SOME REQUIREMENT WITH NO BUILDINGS. MM-HMM . THAT'S GONNA BE SPECIFIED IN OUR ORDINANCE. MM-HMM . A PERCENTAGE, PROBABLY COMMON OPEN SPACE. MM-HMM . OKAY. WHAT, I'M SORRY, I WAS SAYING COMMON OPEN SPACE. THAT'S REGARD. OKAY. A COMMON OPEN SPACE AS OPPOSED TO JUST OPEN SPACE. WELL, WHEN I SAY COMMON OPEN SPACE, 'CAUSE OPEN, THESE OPEN SPACES ARE ALWAYS IN COMMON AREA. 'CAUSE THEY HAVE TO BE MAINTAINED AND PRESERVED BY AN HOA. SO THAT'S WHAT I SAY WHEN I USE THAT TERM, THEY'RE THE SAME THING. OKAY. BE CAREFUL WITH YOUR TERMS, PLEASE. OKAY. BECAUSE I MEAN, ANY SUBTLETY IN YOUR TERM CAN MEAN A HOPE CAN MEAN SOMETHING DIFFERENT IF, UH, A BUILDER, A BUILDER GIVES A, UH, HAS A SPACE AND DECIDES TO GIVE PART OF IT TO A, UH, LAND CONSERVANCY. OKAY. THAT MEETS AS THE REQUIREMENTS FOR OPEN, FOR OPEN SPACE OF THE, OF THE DEVELOPMENT. BUT THAT SPACE CANNOT BE NECESSARILY USED FOR ANYTHING BUT THAT BECAUSE NOW IT'S ACTUALLY UNDER CONTROLLED BY ANOTHER ENTITY. MM-HMM . SO THIS GETS A LITTLE COMPLICATED HERE. YOU'RE CORRECT. ABSOLUTELY. EXCEPT FOR THE FACT THE ORDINANCE AS DRAFTED SAYS AT LEAST 15% OF THAT OPEN SPACE HAS TO BE RECREATIONAL SPACE. SO EVEN IF THEY GIVE IT A CONSERVATORY MM-HMM . STILL 15% OF IT HAS TO GO TO RECREATIONAL PURPOSES. SO HOWEVER, THEY WORK OUTTA THAT AGREEMENT OF THE TOTAL, THE TOTAL SPACE OF THE, OF THE TOTAL OPEN SPACE. RIGHT. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. THAT WAS JUST MY LITTLE GRAPHIC OF A UTILITY EASEMENT. AND YOU DON'T WANT THAT TO BE RECREATION SPACE. I'M GONNA HOP DOWN HERE TO EB. SO THERE'S A REQUIREMENT THAT YOUR RECREATION AREAS NEED TO BE ACCESSED BY PEDESTRIAN AND BIKE PATHS. YOU NEED TO BE ABLE TO GO FROM YOUR HOUSE AND ACCESS THE RECREATION AREA. THE TERM THAT'S USED THOUGH IS GOOD INGRESS AND EASEMENT. GOOD IS A SUBJECTIVE TERM, ESPECIALLY FOR CODE. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? AND SO WE CLARIFY THAT TO SAY SAFE AND LEVEL PATH NEEDS TO BE SAFE. IT NEEDS TO BE LEVEL, CAN'T BE SUPER STEEP AND NOT ACCESSIBLE. I'M GONNA SKIP DOWN A LITTLE BIT TO E WE'RE LOOKING AT A NEW STANDARD THAT'S BEEN ADDED. AND THIS IS ABOUT STORMWATER PONDS OR BMPS. SO THIS IS A PHOTO OF A BMP THAT IS FUNCTIONING FOR ITS PURPOSE. IT'S HANDLING STORMWATER RUNOFF AND IT'S MANAGING WATER QUANTITY AND QUALITY IN AND OF ITSELF, THOUGH NOT NECESSARILY A RECREATIONAL [01:20:01] FEATURE OR AMENITY. SO WE MADE A CLARIFICATION THAT YOU'RE GONNA HAVE A STORM WATER POND, AND I DEVELOPER THEN SAY, THIS IS ONE OF MY RECREATIONAL AMENITIES AND PARDON MY RECREATIONAL SPACES, NEEDS TO ACTUALLY HAVE RECREATIONAL COMPONENTS. SO THIS IS A GOOD EXAMPLE PHOTO. YOU KNOW, THERE'S A WATER FEATURE, THERE'S A BRIDGE, THERE'S A PATH. IT'S ACTUALLY AN AMENITY. THE VIRTUE OF IT BEING A POND IN AND OF ITSELF DOES NOT EQUATE IT TO BE A RECREATIONAL AMENITY. SO WE JUST WANTED TO MAKE THAT CLARIFICATION OF THE CODE. SO WHAT IS, SO WHAT IS THE RECREATIONAL AMENITY? THE WALKING PATH MM-HMM . AND IF YOU READ THE TEXT OF IT, WE SAY IT'S NOT, YOU KNOW, SOLELY RETENTION OR BASIN LIKE IN DESIGN. SO THE LANGUAGE OF WHAT WE WRITTEN IS, AGAIN, YOU HAVE LIKE LANDSCAPING AROUND IT. YOU HAVE LOW FENCING, YOU MAKE IT INVITING FOR THE USER TO COME AND INTERACT WITH IT AND ACTUALLY DO A RECREATIONAL ACTIVITY AS, AS OPPOSED TO IT IS STRICTLY A STORMWATER POND THAT DOESN'T LEND ITSELF TO THAT USE. SO YOU CAN PUT THIS IN A, YOU CAN PUT THIS IN AN ORDINANCE, BUT I GUARANTEE YOU THE AVERAGE JOE IS NOT GONNA UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU JUST SAID. I MEAN, YOU TALK ABOUT A RECREATION SPACE. I DON'T KNOW THE, THE BOARD MEMBERS. TO ME RECREATIONAL SPACE IS WHERE YOU CAN GET OUT AND HIT BALLS, THROW FRISBEES, RUN WITH YOUR DOG, YOU KNOW, DO ALL KIND OF STUFF. I MEAN, THAT'S, THAT'S THE KIND OF SENSE. BUT IN THE END, BUT FROM THE, FROM THE DEVELOPER'S PERSPECTIVE, YOU KNOW, HE'S LOOKING TO MAXIMIZE THE SPACE AND MAKE IT APPEALING. BUT WE GOTTA MEET THESE, THESE SPECIFICS. LIKE I COULD SEE THE BRIDGE ACROSS THIS POND. DOES THAT MAKE THE WHOLE POND A RECREATIONAL SPACE? I THINK THIS, THIS, YOU KNOW, IF A DEVELOPER WOULD COME AND SAY, I HAVE A STORMWATER POND THAT I WANNA CLAIM AS A RECREATIONAL COMPONENT, WE WOULD LOOK AT THE SUM OF THE WHOLE, OF WHAT'S BEING PROPOSED THERE IN TOTALITY. SO WITH, YOU KNOW, I MEAN THIS IS JUST AN EXAMPLE PICTURE. I THINK IT WOULD DEPEND ON CASE BY CASE, WHAT THEY PRESENTED TO STAFF AND WHAT THEY WERE SAYING. HERE'S WHAT MAKE, AGAIN, IN THE CONTEXT OF THE DEVELOPMENT WE'RE PROPOSING IN OUR RECREATIONAL COMPONENTS, THIS IS HOW WE'RE MAKING THIS A RECREATIONAL COMPONENT AS OPPOSED TO I NEED TO MEET MY RECREATION SPACE REQUIREMENT. UM, SO OKAY, I'M GONNA TAKE, CALL THE AREA AROUND MY PALM, MY STORM WATER POND THAT I HAVE TO HAVE RECREATION JUST TO MEET THAT REQUIREMENT. THAT'S THE SITUATION WE'RE TRYING TO PREVENT. WE WANT IT TO BE INTENTIONAL. IF YOU'RE GONNA CALL THAT RECREATION SPACE, AND YOU PROBABLY NEED TO DO MORE THAN JUST THROW A FOUNTAIN IN THERE AND CALL IT REC STAFF WILL YEAH. BE A LITTLE BIT MORE RIGOROUS IN, IN THAT EVALUATION. EXACTLY. YEAH. THIS IS, I DON'T KNOW OF ANY DEVELOPMENT. I MEAN, YOU PROBABLY HAVE MAYBE THE, THE SUPERVISORS, NO ONE, I DON'T KNOW, A OF A, B AND P THAT WAS JUST BUILT FOR THE HELL OF IT. NORMALLY THE LAND IS GONNA BE USED YEAH. TO BE, UH, FOR SOMETHING OR, BUT, OR IT HAS A LOT TO DO WITH STORM WATER FLOW. CONTINUE THE FLOW OF PREVIOUS MM-HMM . YOU KNOW, EXISTING STREAMS AND WHATNOT. YES. MM-HMM . AND, AND IT MEETS THE, UH, TMDL YES. HELPS BUILD IT, MEET THE TMDL STANDARDS. SO, UM, IT JUST, I CAN SEE WHERE THIS GETS A LITTLE CONFUSING. OKAY. OKAY. SO IN THE END, I DON'T SEE A BP AS A RECREATIONAL AMENITY. IT'S REQUIRED. OKAY. I MEAN, I DON'T SEE IT AS SUCH. I SEE IT AS A POND DOING, IT MAY BE DUE DOUBLE DUTY, BUT YOU, IT, WE JUST NEED TO MAKE SURE IT'S REALLY CLEAR. MM-HMM . HOW IT'S, HOW A POND PLAYS INTO THE RECREATIONAL RE REQUIREMENTS. NO, I CAN, YOU'RE COMPLETELY RIGHT. AND I THINK THAT'S THE GOAL OF WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE IS MAKING THAT CLARIFICATION THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THAT AGAIN, UPON BY ITSELF IT'S AN AMENITY. PROBABLY NOT. YOU JUST HAVE TO PASS THE RED FACE TEST THAT THE RESIDENTS OF THAT, UM, PLAN DEVELOPMENT MM-HMM . AND YOU, IF YOU TELL 'EM THAT'S A RECREATIONAL AREA, IF THEY GO, YEAH, I CAN SEE THAT. OR IF THEY GO, IT'S JUST A STEEL POND AND NOBODY DOES ANYTHING WITH IT. IT'S, EVERYBODY'S GOTTA BE ABLE TO PASS THAT RED FACE TEST AS IF YOU GO TO CALL IT A RECREATIONAL AREA, IT'S GOTTA LOOK LIKE A RECREATIONAL AREA. EVEN IF IT'S JUST A MEAT AND PLATE WITH SOME BENCHES IN THE PATH, THAT WORKS TOO. BUT AGAIN, PAST THAT TEST. YES. AND A BMP IS PART OF THE OPEN SPACE, RIGHT? THEY CAN BE, YES. MM-HMM . OKAY. OKAY. SO I'M GONNA HOP DOWN A LITTLE BIT TO SECTION, I'M SORRY. IF IT WAS A LARGE ENOUGH LAKE LIKE THAT ONE WAS AND YOU OFFERED KAYAKING OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, , THEN YOU COULD MAKE A CASE THAT AT LEAST A PORTION OF IT IS A RECREATION MUST BE IN PIECE. WELL, THAT'S A VERY INTERESTING POINT BECAUSE SOME OF THESE PONDS ARE NOT BIG. THEY'RE NOT AS BIG AS THIS ROOM. AND YET PUT PEOPLE, I FOUND PEOPLE WITH BOATS IN, IN THE POND. OKAY. THEY GO FISHING IN THE POND TOO. OR THE, SOME HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION WILL ADAPT LATER NEAR A, UH, DRAINAGE OUTFLOW. THEY'LL PUT AN AREA, LIKE A PARK, MAYBE THE DEVELOPER WILL HAVE LEFT OFF A COUPLE OF LOTS THAT WILL TURN INTO A PARK, BUT THEY GO FISHING IN THE POND, BUT THEY'RE NOT ALLOWED ACCESS TO ANY ELSE, UH, ANY OTHER, UH, ACCESS AROUND THE, AROUND THE POND. SO THERE'S, THERE'S ALL DIFFERENT WAYS OF PLAYING HIS GAME. I MEAN, [01:25:01] CONTINUE PLEASE. I'M GONNA MOVE DOWN TO SECTION F RIGHT NOW. FOR PDR OR RESIDENTIAL PLAN DEVELOPMENTS, THERE'S PRESCRIPTIVE REQUIRED RECREATIONAL FACILITIES. MM-HMM . SUCH AS LARGE POOLS, TENNIS COURTS, AND PLAY FIELDS. WHAT WE'VE HEARD, ESPECIALLY FROM THE OLDER PDS FROM THE LATE NINETIES, EARLY TWO THOUSANDS, IS THAT SOME OF THE HOAS HAVE COMMUNICATED TO US, WE HAVE THIS MASSIVE POOL THAT NOBODY USES. OR WE HAVE A TENNIS COURT THAT NOBODY USES, AND NOW WE'RE PAYING THESE MAINTENANCE COSTS. SO THIS KIND OF LED US TO REVISIT AND SAY, INSTEAD OF HAVING PRESCRIPTIVE REQUIREMENTS, MAYBE WE CAN DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT. BECAUSE DIFFERENT DEVELOPMENTS HAVE DIFFERENT CONTEXTUAL NEEDS DEPENDING ON WHAT'S BEING PROPOSED. 'CAUSE AGAIN, THESE HAVE TO GO TO PLANNING COMMISSION, THEY HAVE TO GO TO THE BOARD, THEY'RE REVIEWED BY STAFF. SO WE WANNA GET THE BEST PRODUCT AND DEVELOPMENT THAT WE CAN GET HERE IN THE COUNTY. AND SO WHAT WE HAVE PIVOTED AND PROPOSED HERE ARE PROPOSED FACILITY CATEGORIES. AND THERE'S THREE KINDS. ACTIVE RECREATION. AND WE HAVE IN THE ORDINANCE TEXT SUGGESTIONS FOR WHAT CONSTITUTES THAT. THESE ARE THINGS, AGAIN, YOU ACTIVELY RECREATE THAT PLAYGROUNDS, BALL FIELDS REQUIRED PASSIVE RECREATION. THESE ARE THINGS LIKE GARDENS, OR MAYBE YOU HAVE A GAZEBO THAT OVER SITS A LAKE AND YOU SIT ON THAT AND VIEW THAT. AGAIN, PASSIVE RECREATION. BOTH OF THESE ARE REQUIRED. AND THEN WALKWAYS AND TRAILS THROUGHOUT THE DEVELOPMENT TO ACCESS ALL THE RECREATION COMPONENTS. SOMEONE HAS TO LEAVE THEIR DWELLING UNIT AND BE ABLE TO ACCESS THE RECREATION SAFELY. AND THE WALKWAYS AND TRAILS THEMSELVES SHOULD BE AN ACTUAL RECREATIONAL COMPONENT AS WELL. AGAIN, WE'RE TAKING TO TAKING THE APPROACH OF WE'RE NOT HAVING PRESCRIPTIVE REQUIREMENTS. AND AGAIN, WE'RE PROPOSING YOU HAVE, AGAIN, YOU HAVE TO HAVE THESE CATEGORIES. YOU CAN'T JUST PUT IN A FIELD AND SAY, YEP, THAT'S MY RECREATION AND CALL IT A DAY. YOU NEED TO HAVE ACTIVE, YOU NEED TO HAVE PASSIVE INCORPORATE THOSE WALKWAYS AND TRAILS. HAVE THAT ON YOUR CONCEPT PLAN. BUT AGAIN, WE HAVE THESE BROADER CATEGORIES TO ALLOW FOR MORE FLEXIBILITY IN WHAT'S ACTUALLY DEVELOPED. DO WE HAVE A REQUIREMENT FOR LO WHERE THEY'RE LOCATED IN A, IN A COMPLEX MM-HMM . GENERALLY THEY NEED TO, I MEAN, GENERALLY WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT A MASTER PLAN, THEY NEED TO BE CENTRAL. YOU KNOW, GENERALLY THEY'RE CENTRALLY LOCATED. YOU KNOW, TRAILS OBVIOUSLY CAN BE ON THE PERIPHERY, BUT IF YOU'RE HAVING LIKE A PLAYGROUND FOR EXAMPLE, YOU WANT THAT TO BE SOMEWHAT CENTRAL BECAUSE EVERYBODY IN THE DEVELOPMENT NEEDS TO ACCESS IT. AND SO THOSE ARE THE THINGS WE LOOK AT. WE DON'T PRESCRIPTIVELY REQUIRE THAT YOU HAVE TO PUT IT RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE. BUT THAT'S THE PLACE THAT LOGICALLY MAKES THE MOST SENSE. WELL, WE HAVE NEIGHBORHOOD, WE HAVE NEIGHBORHOODS DOWN IN MY DISTRICT THAT HAVE PLAYGROUNDS THAT ARE NEVER USED BECAUSE THEY'RE IN THE WRONG PLACE. THEY'RE NOT, THEY'RE, THEY'RE CENTRALLY LOCATED IN THE WRONG PLACE. MM-HMM . THEY NEITHER. YEAH. THEY HAVE TO CROSS, UH, EITHER CROSS KIND OF BUSY STREETS TO GET TO 'EM. MM-HMM . UH, OR THEY'RE IN A PLACE WHERE THERE'S NO SHADE OR, UH, SUCH LIKE THAT. OR JUST YOU DON'T FEEL SAFE. SO THAT'S WHY I'M KIND OF WONDERING IF WE ARE STIPULATING. SO THIS IS A LESSON LEARNED THAT WE CAN APPLY TO, UH, THESE PLAYGROUNDS. 'CAUSE YOU'RE GONNA SPEND 90,000 TO A A HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS ON EQUIPMENT TO PUT IT IN THERE. YOU KNOW, IT'S GOTTA BE MORE THAN JUST SHOW MM-HMM . BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO MAINTAIN IT. YES. I'M GONNA MOVE DOWN A LITTLE BIT JUST FOR FERENCE. I'M ON PAGE FOUR. LOOKING AT NUMBER THREE. NO MORE MULCH PATHS. IF YOU'RE GONNA HAVE A PATH THAT ACCESSES RECREATION AREA, AT A MINIMUM, IF IT'S A PEDESTRIAN WALKWAY, IT NEEDS TO BE STONE DUST. IF IT'S A MULTI-USE TRAIL, IT'S GOTTA BE PAVED MULCH PATHS. WHENEVER IT RAINS, THEY WASH AWAY. JUST EXPERIENCE HAS PROVEN THEY DON'T FUNCTION. AND SO WE'RE MAKING THAT ABUNDANTLY CLEAR HERE. WHAT, THAT'S NOT AN OPTION. WHAT, WHAT ABOUT THE FOUNDATION FOR THESE KIND OF ROADS? UM, FOR ASPHALT FOUNDATION UNDERNEATH IT? WELL, THEY HAVE TO HAVE, UM, ALL WEATHER SURFACE FOUNDATION TOO. UNDERNEATH. YES. THAT'S SPECIFIED IN THE, IN THE CODE. THAT WOULD BE PART OF THE CROSS SECTION THAT WE WOULD LOOK AT WHEN IT'S SUBMITTED. WHEN THEY SUBMIT THE CROSS SECTION FOR JUST BY WAY OF EXAMPLE, STONE DUST, WE WANNA SEE, OKAY, IS THERE, MEANWHILE YOUR EDGING NEEDS TO BE DURABLE, SO LIKE STEEL OR SOME KIND OF PLASTIC THAT'S GONNA CONTAIN YOUR FILL GRAVEL. AND THEN WE'RE LOOKING AT THE LAYERS. AGAIN, YOUR BASE LAYER NEEDS TO BE SOMETHING THAT'S AS IT STACKS UP DURABLE. SO, CAITLYN, YES. UH, LET ME ASK YOU A QUESTION. MM-HMM . I, I KNOW YOU'RE GOING THROUGH THIS SPECIFIC, BUT I THINK IF YOU TOLD US WHY YOU'RE DOING WHAT YOU'RE DOING, THIS IS THE PROBLEMS THAT WE'RE HAVING. THIS IS THE PROBLEMS THAT WE'RE SEEING AND THAT'S WHY WE'RE CHANGING. MM-HMM . I THINK IT MIGHT HELP SOME CLAR CLARIFICATION. OKAY. LIKE, HEY, THESE ARE PROBLEMS JUST LIKE THE WALKWAYS. YOU JUST EXPLAINED THAT. BUT NOT NECESSARILY SOME OF THE OTHER STUFF. I THINK IT WOULD BE GREAT IF YOU, IF YOU COULD INTERJECT SOME OF THE ISSUES THAT YOU'RE SEEING COMING FORWARD IN THE COUNTY. YOU GUYS ARE TRYING TO CIRCUMVENT DISASTERS DOWN THE ROAD. JUST MY, MY SUGGESTION. OKAY. YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. UM, [01:30:01] AS I KIND OF ALLUDED TO EARLIER, WITH, AGAIN, THOSE PRESCRIPTIVE FACILITIES, A LOT OF THAT COMES FROM COMMUNICATION FROM HOAS. AND AGAIN, THEY HAVE THESE FACILITIES THAT ARE COSTLY TO MAINTAIN MM-HMM . OR THEY COULD BE LESS USED. AND THAT'S WHY WE PIVOTED TOWARD THIS MORE FLEXIBLE, AGAIN, WE'RE GONNA GIVE YOU THESE BROAD CATEGORIES. WE WANT YOU TO HAVE THESE FACILITIES, BUT DEPENDING ON THE KIND OF DEVELOPMENT IT IS AND WHAT'S ACTUALLY BEING PROPOSED, YOU HAVE SOME FLEXIBILITY WITH THE CATEGORIES YOU'RE PROPOSING THAT ARE APPROPRIATE FOR THE SIZE OF, YOU KNOW, WHETHER IT'S 20 HOMES OR IT'S A HUNDRED. AGAIN, IT'S DEPENDENT ON WHAT'S ACTUALLY BEING PROPOSED AND WHAT'S THE BEST THING FOR THAT DEVELOPMENT. SO WE'RE NOT HAVING THESE ISSUES THAT WE'VE HEARD FROM THE HOAS PARTICULARLY. AND I LIKE THAT APPROACH. 'CAUSE IT GIVES THE DEVELOPER AN OPPORTUNITY TO READ THE MARKET AND FIGURE OUT WHAT IS GONNA BE THE BEST I MINUTE THEY CAN ADD THERE TO ATTRACT BUYERS TO THEIR, THAT COMMUNITY. AS OPPOSED TO SAYING, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A POOL, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A TENNIS COURT MM-HMM . SO THAT, I LIKE THAT APPROACH. WE ADDED SOME CLARIFI. OH, I'M SORRY. OKAY. OKAY. OKAY. WE ADDED SOME CLARIFICATIONS. THIS IS ON PAGE FIVE. YOU'LL SEE SOMETHING THERE ABOUT ON STREET PARKING. AND THAT'S BEEN A PROBLEM. AND SO WE KNOW THE DEVELOPMENTS WITHERS MILL, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT HAVE THESE ISSUES. AND SO WHAT WE'VE CLARIFIED THERE IS YOU CAN'T USE ON STREETT PARKING TO SUPPLEMENT YOUR REQUIRED OFF STREET PARKING. AND IF YOU'RE GOING TO PROPOSE SURPLUS ON-STREET PARKING, YOUR STREET MUST MEET THE VDOT STANDARD MINIMUM AND BE WIDE ENOUGH TO ACCOMMODATE THAT. SO NO, WE'RE NOT DOING A 20 FOOT ROAD AND SAYING WE'RE GONNA PARK ON IT. THAT'S NOT GONNA BE ACCEPTABLE. AND SO AGAIN, WE'RE JUST MAKING THAT CLEAR IN THIS LANGUAGE. WHAT ABOUT PARKING ON THE SIDEWALK? I MEAN, REMEMBER THE IMAGE? NO, NO. WELL, I KNOW. THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING THOUGH. WE, THAT'S ONE OF THE, THE ISSUES WE SAW IN THAT PRESENTATION THAT WAS A WHILE BACK WHERE PEOPLE HAD NO PLACE TO PARK. SO THEY TRY TO GO UP TO THE, YOU KNOW, THEY GOT ONE CAR IN THE PARKING IN, UH, IN THE DRIVEWAY AND THEN THEY PUT ANOTHER ONE IN, WHICH THEN MAKES THE SIDEWALK UNUSABLE. 'CAUSE YOU HAVE TO WALK IN THE STREET. HOW ARE WE ADDRESSING THAT HERE? WE, WE CHANGED THAT CODE, DIDN'T WE? DIDN'T WE? YOU DID. YEAH. AND THIS, MY, THIS IS WHY WE'RE CHANGING. OH, THAT'S WHAT I'M JUST SAYING. HOW'S IT BEING ADDRESSED? OKAY, SO THIS WILL FUNCTION IN 10 TO WHAT YOU CONSIDERED LAST MONTH WITH THE PARKING. MM-HMM . SO PART OF THAT PROBLEM WAS BECAUSE THE GARAGE WAS GETTING COUNTED AS A SPACE AND THE DRIVEWAY WASN'T LONG ENOUGH TO ACCOMMODATE TWO VEHICLES THAT WAS CHANGED. MM-HMM . SO YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO HAVE THAT LONGER DRIVEWAY. SIDEWALKS NEED TO BE ACCESSIBLE. THIS IS REALLY SAYING, AGAIN, YOU KNOW, CLARIFYING. YOU CAN'T HAVE ON STREET PARKING AS SUPPLEMENT FOR YOUR REQUIRED OFF STREET. IT'S, IT'S KIND OF REDUNDANT TO A CASE, BUT WE'RE JUST MAKING IT CLEAR IN THIS LANGUAGE AS WELL. MAKE IT CLEAR BECAUSE WE'VE SEEN THE PROBLEMS. WE ALSO ADDED A CLARIFICATION. YOU HAVE TO HAVE SIDEWALKS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE STREET. THIS IS A PHOTO OF A DEVELOPMENT WHERE WE SEE THE SIDEWALK IS NOT ON THE SIDE OF THE STREET WHERE THE HOMES ARE. SO THE ACCESS IS THEY HAVE TO CROSS THE STREET. MM-HMM . SO AGAIN, WE'RE REALLY JUST REITERATING YOU HAVE TO HAVE SIDEWALKS ON BOTH SIDES OF YOUR ROAD SO YOUR RESIDENTS CAN ACCESS AND HAVE SAFE EGRESS AND INGRESS. SO AT THE VERY END OF PDR, WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT IN CONTEXT OF WHAT WE'RE AMENDING, THERE'S EXISTING AFFORDABLE HOUSING INCENTIVES. I'LL BE FRANK, THEY'RE NOT USED VERY OFTEN. I HAVE NOT SEEN THIS BEEN USED IN MY TIME WITH THE COUNTY. BUT THE CURRENT PROVISIONS ALLOW FOR REDUCTION OR REQUEST TO ELIMINATE OPEN SPACE IN THE CONTEXT OF I DEVELOPER, I'M DOING THIS AFFORDABLE HOUSING PROJECT. STAFF FELT THAT THIS WASN'T REALLY APPROPRIATE. THE ELIMINATION OF OPEN SPACE WAS NOT APPROPRIATE. EVEN AFFORDABLE HOUSING DEVELOPMENT SHOULD HAVE A COMPONENT OF OPEN SPACE AND RECREATIONAL SPACE. SO WE KEPT THE ABILITY TO REQUEST A REDUCTION. WE REMOVED THE ABILITY TO REQUEST ELIMINATION OF OPEN SPACE. AND THEN THAT KIND OF FLOWED DOWN TO, FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU HAD LOTS THAT WERE OVER 7,500 SQUARE FEET IN SIZE, YOU COULD ELIMINATE YOUR RECREATION SPACE. THAT'S, WE DIDN'T FEEL THAT WAS APPROPRIATE. SO WE STRUCK THAT. SO REALLY WE'RE PRESERVING SOME OF IT BY SAYING YOU CAN REDUCE A REQUEST, A REDUCTION IN, OR EXCUSE ME, OPEN SPACE. YOU CAN'T GET RID OF IT COMPLETELY. THIS IS JUST A PHOTO OF AN AFFORDABLE HOUSING DEVELOPMENT IN NORFOLK WITH OPEN SPACE. YOU CAN HAVE OPEN SPACE AND AFFORDABLE HOUSING. IT WORKS. YES. IS THAT A REQUEST OF THE BOARD THROUGH A SPECIAL USE PERMIT? OR THIS WOULD BE PART OF, UM, A PLAN DEVELOPMENT THAT WERE TO COME BEFORE YOU IF THEY WANTED TO UTILIZE THESE AFFORDABLE HOUSING INCENTIVE PROVISIONS THAT WOULD BE PART OF THE REQUEST THAT THEY TAKE TO YOU WITH THE DEVELOPMENT, SEEING THAT PICTURE? UM, FIRST THING CAME TO MY MIND, UM, HAVING SERVED ON THE WETLANDS BOARD WAS THE IMPERVIOUS SURFACE. SO DID WE PUT ANY EMPHASIS ON A PER HAVING IMPERVIOUS SURFACE? MM-HMM. INDEED. IMPERVIOUS SURFACE. THAT'S EXPENSIVE. THAT'S IMPERVIOUS THERE BECAUSE IT'S JUST SOLID CONCRETE. IT IS. I MEAN THIS IS JUST AN EXAMPLE PICTURE. THIS IS BROAD CREEK AND NORFOLK. IT WAS JUST MY KIND OF AN EXAMPLE OF SAYING, YOU KNOW, UH, FROM A DEVELOPER'S SIDE, YOU CAN HAVE AN AFFORDABLE HOUSING DEVELOPMENT AND STILL HAVE COMMON OPEN SPACE FOR YOUR RESIDENTS. SO PORT, [01:35:01] PORT, PORT WARWICK'S THE SAME. I MEAN, IT LOOKS SIMILAR TO THAT, THE OPEN SPACE IN THE MIDDLE WITH THE SIDEWALKS AND PARKING AROUND. BUT DOES OUR ORDINANCE SPEAK TO HOW MUCH OF THAT, I GUESS RECREATIONAL SPACE IS NON-POROUS? SO FOR YOUR PRESERVED OPEN SPACE THAT REALLY TRULY NEEDS TO BE A PRESERVED OPEN SPACE. I THINK WHAT TIES INTO YOUR RECREATION AREA, AGAIN, IF YOU'RE GONNA HAVE LIKE ALL WEATHER TRAILS, FOR EXAMPLE, AND THIS WOULD TIE INTO PROBABLY LIKE WHAT GOES INTO YOUR STORM WATER AND THE DRAINAGE ON SITE. AND SO IF THEY'RE, YOU KNOW, IF IT WORKS FOR THEIR STORM WATER TO DO A POROUS SURFACE AS YOU'VE SUGGESTED, MAYBE THAT'S AN OPTION THEY WOULD USE. BUT AGAIN, THE IDEA OF LIKE, YOU KNOW, YOUR, YOUR OPEN SPACE THAT'S NOT RECREATION YET NEEDS TO BE TRULY PRESERVED OPEN SPACE THAT YOU'RE NOT DEVELOPING. I I I JUST WHAT YOU JUST SAID, JUST CONFUSE THE HELL ON ME. 'CAUSE YOU'RE GONNA PRESERVE REAL OPEN SPACE. WELL, YOU CAN PUT A, YOU CAN PUT A CLUB IN HERE THAT'S, THAT'S IMPERVIOUS. I MEAN YOU, YOU KIND OF KALIN JUST KIND OF M MUSHING STUFF TOGETHER HERE. SO I MEAN, I I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHERE WHAT YOU SAID. BE HONEST WITH YOU. COME, YOU GOTTA GO BACK AND ADDRESS WHAT YOU JUST SAID. THE, SO FOR OPEN SPACE, IT'S GREEN AREA. MM-HMM . IT'S, OR IT'S ENVIRONMENTAL AREAS. AGAIN, WE'RE PRESERVING IN THE DEVELOPMENT. AND A COMPONENT OF THAT IS RECREATIONAL SPACE. SO 25% OF THE DEVELOPMENT NEEDS TO BE OPEN SPACE MM-HMM . RIGHT? MM-HMM . UP AT LEAST 15% OF THAT PER THE CHANGES RECOMMENDED NEEDS TO BE RECREATIONAL SPACE. MM-HMM . SOME OF THAT CAN BE GREEN. SOME OF THAT COULD BE A BLACK TOP SURFACE FOR A, A TENNIS COURT OR A CLUBHOUSE MM-HMM . UM, CAN YOU HAVE ALL 25% BE, UM, RECREATIONAL SPACE? SURE. FRANKLY, NO. UM, AND I THINK, I DON'T THINK A DEVELOPER WOULD COME TO US WITH THAT PROPOSAL 'CAUSE OF COST. UNDERSTOOD. I'M JUST, I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND. FIVE, THEY'RE NOT GIVING UP 25% OF THEIR LAND. MM-HMM. WELL, THEY'RE GIVING UP 25% AS OPEN SPACE. BUT, YOU KNOW, WOULD THEY DEVELOP THAT, YOU KNOW, BUILD BIG BALL FIELDS AND THE ENTIRE OPEN SPACE BE RECREATIONAL SPACE. MM-HMM . 'CAUSE THE ORDINANCE SAYS AT LEAST 15%. RIGHT. WHICH MEANS IT COULD BE ALL THE, THE ENTIRE 25% MM-HMM . I THINK IF UNLIKELY. BUT YEAH, I THINK IF A PROPOSAL LIKE THAT WERE TO COME TO STAFF, WE WOULD TELL THE DEVELOPER WE HAVE CONCERNS WITH THIS. OKAY. BUT BACK TO MR. SHEPHERDS MM-HMM . I THINK QUESTION OF THE 15 PLUS PERCENT, IS THERE ANYTHING THAT SPEAKS TO, YOU CAN'T PAVE IT ALL OVER IT. IT CAN'T ALL BE NON IMPERVIOUS? OR DOES THE ORDINANCE SPEAK TO THAT? DO YOU WANT TO, I THINK THAT'S WHAT YOU, I'M JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE, THE TERMINOLOGY KEEPS GOING, LEAPING BACK AND FORTH. I THINK THAT THE QUESTION YOU'RE TRYING TO GET AT MR. SHEPHERD, IS STORMWATER REGULATIONS STILL APPLIED? YES. I MEAN, THEY STILL HAVE TO MEET THEIR STORM WATER REQUIREMENTS. THE RECREATION COMPONENT COULD BE A PART OF THAT IF THEY HAVE A BMP OR FIELDS OR THINGS LIKE THAT. BUT THE STORMWATER REQUIREMENTS ARE NOT CHANGING WITH THE PLAN DEVELOPMENT CHANGES. THEY STILL HAVE TO MEET STORM WATER REQUIREMENTS NO MATTER WHAT. SO THESE ARE, ARE TWO SEPARATE, I'M THINKING, I'M THINKING OF, OF ENVIRONMENTAL ASPECTS. I DON'T KNOW THE COST OF BRICKS VERSUS ASPHALT. I WOULD IMAGINE BRICKS PROBABLY MORE EXPENSIVE 'CAUSE OF THE LABOR. BUT, UM, GRAVEL THOUGH, UH, IS CHEAPER THAN, UH, THAN, UH, THAN CONCRETE. AND IT'S PERVIOUS. OKAY. AND SO WE HAVE THIS REQUIREMENT OVERALL OF THE OVER THE COUNTY BECAUSE WE'RE NOW GETTING DOWN TO THE, THE PART WHERE IT'S GONNA GET EXPENSIVE FOR US IF WE DON'T QUALIFY TO MEET ALL THE TMDL REQUIREMENTS. AND I'M JUST LOOKING AT FUTURE DEVELOPMENTS THAT PROVIDE SOME SOMETHING THAT WE CREDIT FOR IT. THAT'S COULD BE RECREATIONAL SPACE, OPEN SPACE. BUT ANYTIME WE GO, UH, YOU JUST, YOU TALK TO PEOPLE ABOUT OPEN SPACE, THEY THINK IT'S GONNA BE OPEN. OKAY. IT COULD BE TREES IN IT, BUT IT'S GONNA BE OPEN. BUT FOR US IT'S NOT. AND THAT'S CORRECT. I MEAN, THE DEFINITION THAT YOU'RE SAYING IS CORRECT. IT'S NOT ALWAYS, IT COULD BE A WOODED AREA, IT COULD BE FORESTED, IT COULD BE STEEP SLOPE, RAVINES, THINGS OF THAT NATURE. COULD BE A LOT OF STUFF. SO, OKAY. I JUST WANT TO EXCUSE WHAT I'M REASONING I'M ASKING THESE QUESTIONS. 'CAUSE OVER THE YEARS, DECADES, WE'VE, THESE ARE KIND OF THINGS I'VE SEEN HAVE COME TO BE A PROBLEM. IN FACT, UNTIL THE LAST FIVE, SIX YEARS, THEY'VE BECOME EVEN MORE OF A PROBLEM. I REMEMBER DOUG TALKING ABOUT THE PARKING AND STREET MANAGEMENT AND ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF. WELL, THIS IS WHAT'S HAPPENED AS WE GOT FEWER SPACES, WE GOT PEOPLE CRAMMING MORE STUFF IN IT AND, [01:40:01] AND COMING BACK WITH PROBLEMS THAT ARE REAL PROBLEMS THAT WE NEED TO ADDRESS, THAT WE'RE TRYING TO ADDRESS HERE. OKAY. RIGHT. EXACTLY. AND I APPRECIATE WHAT YOU'RE DOING. I REALLY DO. IT'S JUST, I GOTTA UNDERSTAND THE, THE HOW YOU'RE, HOW YOU, YOU, WHEN YOU, YOU GO, YOU GO FROM OPEN SPACE TO RECREATIONAL SPACE AND THEN OPEN SPACE CAN HAVE BUILDINGS AND BMPS AND STUFF IN IT. RECREATIONAL SPACE HAS GOTTA BE, I GUESS YOU RECREATE SOMEHOW IN THERE. IT COULD BE ALL, ANY MANNER. AND HOW THAT'S HOW THAT'S GONNA LOOK WITH A FUTURE DEVELOPMENT. 'CAUSE IN WHAT HAPPENS IN THE END, WHAT HAPPENS IN THE END, DEVELOPER SHOWS UP 200 ACRES, 150 ACRES, WHATEVER, AND THEY GOTTA PRESENT A PRESENT A PICTURE BASED UPON THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE COUNTY. AND THEN ALL HELL BREAKS LOOSE BECAUSE IT, BECAUSE THE NEIGHBORS DON'T LIKE WHAT'S, WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN. RIGHT. AND THAT'S WHAT WE, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO ADDRESS WITH THESE CHANGES IS, AS MR. DREWRY SAID, WE HAVE HISTORY, WE HAVE THINGS THAT HAVE HAPPENED IN THE PAST THAT WE'VE NOTICED THERE ARE PROBLEMS WITH. SO WE WANNA MAKE SURE WE'RE ADDRESSING THOSE CHANGES. SO THE CHANGES WE ARE BRINGING FORWARD TO UNITED ARE BASICALLY THINGS THAT WE HAVE SEEN PROBLEMS WITH IN PREVIOUS DEVELOPMENTS. AND SO, UH, EVEN THOUGH THE ORDINANCE ISN'T, YOU KNOW, CHANGING A HUGE AMOUNT, WE AREN'T MAKING THE, THOSE MINOR CHANGES TO TRY TO CLARIFY. I MEAN, OPEN SPACE HAS BEEN IN THE ORDINANCE FOR DECADES, FOREVER. AND RECREATION HAS ALWAYS BEEN A PART OF OPEN SPACE. MM-HMM . UH, WE'RE JUST INCREASING THE REQUIREMENT THAT THEY HAVE MORE RECREATION SPACE AND THAT IT ACTUALLY BE RECREATION SPACE AND, AND SPACES THAT THEY CAN USE. SO LIKE ARBORDALE, ALL OF YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH ARBORDALE WHEN THEY CAME FORWARD, YOU KNOW, THE ORDINANCE SAYS RIGHT NOW THEY'RE REQUIRED TO PUT TENNIS COURTS IN AND POOLS. AND YOU AS THE BOARD MADE THE DECISION BECAUSE THE DEVELOPER SAID, NOBODY THAT LIVES IN OUR COMMUNITY WANTS TO PLAY TENNIS OR HAVE A OLYMPIC SIZED POOL THAT THEY HAVE TO MAINTAIN. THEY WANT A POOL THAT THEY CAN WADE IN AND JUST FLOAT AROUND IN AND THEY WANT A PICKLEBALL COURT OR A DOG PARK OR TRAILS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. AND SO YOU AS THE BOARD ALLOWED THEM TO MAKE THOSE CHANGES TO THEIR PLANNED DEVELOPMENT WHEN ARBORDALE WENT IN. AND THERE'S MULTIPLE OF THESE DEVELOPMENTS THAT YOU ALL HAVE APPROVED THAT HAVE THOSE CHANGES WHERE THEY'RE REQUIRED TO EITHER HAVE AN OLYMPIC SIZED POOL ACCORDING TO THE ORDINANCE. BUT YOU SAID, WELL, YEAH, WE UNDERSTAND THAT'S NOT SOMETHING YOU WANT TO PUT IN. AND SO WE'RE JUST KIND OF MEMORIALIZING A LOT OF THAT IN HERE BY GIVING THE DEVELOPER A LITTLE BIT MORE FLEXIBILITY WHEN IT COMES TO THOSE THINGS. SO EARL, UM, IS THERE ANY SPECIFICITY IN THE ORDINANCE OF OPEN SPACE? IS IT, IS IT CLEAR WHAT CAN BE PUT IN OPEN SPACE? TREES, SHRUBS, SIDEWALKS? YEAH. SO OPEN SPACE, UH, WELL, EXCUSE ME. I THINK THAT'S WHAT TOM'S GETTING CONFUSED ABOUT PROBABLY BECAUSE MM-HMM . DEFINITION, YOU GOT OPEN SPACE, BUT THERE'S OTHER THINGS YOU CAN DO IN THE OPEN SPACE. SO I THINK WE NEED CLARITY ON EXACTLY WHAT CAN BE IN OPEN SPACE AND WHAT CAN BE IN THE OPEN SPACE. OKAY. I'M GONNA READ THE TEXT OF WHAT'S IN E ONE BECAUSE I THINK THAT MIGHT ADDRESS SOME OF THE QUESTIONS. OKAY. AND I'M JUST, I'M JUST GONNA READ IT AS IT'S WRITTEN. OKAY. AND INCLUDING THE CHANGES WE PROPOSED. SO 25% OF THE TOTAL GROSS LAND AREA OF ANY PDR DEVELOPMENT SHALL BE CONSERVED AS OPEN SPACE, WHICH SHALL BE PRESERVED AND MAINTAINED FOR USE BY THOSE WHO LIVE OR WORK WITHIN THE DEVELOPMENT OR OTHER PERSONS OR GROUPS AS THE POA PROPERTY OWNERS ASSOCIATION MAY ALLOW. AND THEN THERE'S THE ADDITION. WE MADE THAT LAND AREAS CONTAINING 30% SLOPES, NON-TITLE WETLANDS, EXISTING PROPOSED UTILITY EASEMENTS OR STORMWATER MANAGEMENT PONDS MAY BE COUNTED TOWARDS THE OPEN SPACE. I DON'T THINK WE HAVE A PRESCRIPTIVE, YOU HAVE TO HAVE IT BE WOODED BECAUSE NOT ALL ARE, AND IT'S MAYBE THEY'RE DEVELOPING ON SOMETHING THAT WAS FARMED. WELL, NO, I'M NOT ASKING THAT. I'M ASKING WHAT PEOPLE CAN COME TO THE COUNTY AND SAY, WHAT CAN I PUT IN THE OPEN SPACE? CAN I PUT TREES? CAN I PUT SIDEWALKS? CAN I PUT, YOU'RE SAYING THEY HAVE THIS OPEN SPACE MM-HMM . AND THEN IT HAS TO BE, YOU KNOW, 30% GREATER, UH, NATURAL OCCURRING SLOPES. BUT AGAIN, I THINK CLARITY ON THAT OF WHAT IS ALLOWED IN AN OPEN SPACE AND WHAT IS NOT ALLOWED IN AN OPEN SPACE, I WOULD THINK THAT WOULD MAKE SOME CLARITY, IN MY OPINION, MAYBE WHAT IS NOT ALLOWED TO. AND LET THEM MAKE THE MIND UP COMMON OPEN SPACE AGAIN, I THINK DEVELOPERS NEED TO KNOW WHAT THEY CAN, WHAT'S PROHIBITED. IF, IF NOTHING ELSE, AT LEAST WHAT'S PROHIBITED. YES. THAT'S ALL I, THAT'S ALL I THINK YOU NEED IS WHAT'S PROHIBITED. AND THEN THEY MAKE THE CHOICE. YEAH, I'M OKAY WITH THAT. WELL, WHAT IT, IT GOES BACK TO MY VERY FIRST QUESTION. WHAT, WHAT DOES THE ORDINANCE CONSIDER REC REAL SPACE? SO JUST, I THINK JUST THE DEFINITION AT THE BEGINNING OF THIS TO SAY OPEN SPACE IN MEANS THE FOLLOWING. MM-HMM . COULD BE TREES, COULD BE WHATEVER WE, WE, I DO WANNA NOTE SPACE. I'M SORRY. I MEANS THE FOLLOWING. MM-HMM. AND THEN EVERYTHING ELSE FOLLOWS [01:45:01] BEHIND, BEHIND THAT. SO EVERYBODY KNOW, OKAY, THIS IS WHEN THEY KIND OF SAYS OPEN SPACE. YEAH. THIS IS WHAT THEY'RE, WHAT THEY MEAN. IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN IT'S OPEN. THERE'S NO OPEN, NO AMBIGUITY TO THAT. RIGHT. SO, BUT ONE OF THE THINGS YOU JUST READ WAS THAT, WAS THAT OPEN SPACE OR WAS THAT JUST RECREATIONAL SPACE? THAT WAS FOR OPEN SPACE, SIR. OPEN SPACE. YOU SAID IN THERE THAT THEY CAN USE, IS THAT WHERE THAT'S THE WORD IN THERE, RIGHT? MM-HMM . THEY CAN USE WELL, IF WE RESTRICT THEM TO CERTAIN THINGS, THAT'S JUST OPEN SPACE. OKAY. SO IS THAT, CAN THAT, IF THEY'RE GONNA USE IT, CAN, HOW IS THAT GONNA BE? THAT USE IS CAN BE RECREATIONAL. MM-HMM . AND IT, I MEAN, I MEAN THE WHOLE THING CAN BE USED IS RECREATIONAL. I MEAN, THEY SPECIFY IT'S STILL OPEN SPACE. THEY SPECIFY THAT IT CAN BE, WELL I'M SAY TWO USES MEANS YOU GOTTA BE ABLE TO DO, YOU GOTTA DO SOMETHING WITH IT. BUT THEY SPECIFY THE STORMWATER MANAGEMENT PONDS OR BASINS CAN BE COUNTED TOWARDS OPEN SPACE. SO AGAIN, WHAT CAN BE COUNTED TOWARDS OPEN SPACE? THAT'S MY QUESTION. I, I APOLOGIZE FOR INTERRUPTING. I DO WANNA NOTE, WE, THIS ISN'T IN THIS SECTION OF THE ORDINANCE FARTHER DOWN, AND THIS IS ACTUALLY IN THE PERFORMANCE STANDARD SECTION AT ALMOST THE END OF THAT SECTION, WE DO DEFINE OPEN SPACE IN THERE. OKAY. UM, BECAUSE THERE'S OPEN SPACE IN OTHER AREAS LIKE CLUSTER DEVELOPMENT, FOR EXAMPLE. SO THERE'S A COMMON DEFINITION IN THAT SECTION. OKAY. I DON'T HAVE IT ON HAND, BUT WE DO HAVE A DEFINITION THERE. OKAY. AT LEAST WE HAVE THAT, THAT WE CAN REFER TO. OKAY. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. IF WE'RE ALL COMFORTABLE, DO YOU WANNA COVER? YOU CAN COVER. OKAY. KATE, I WANTED TO COME BACK TO ONE. KATE, THANK YOU. DO YOU HAVE SOMETHING? MM-HMM. ONE OTHER COMMENT, UH, EARLIER, AND IT WAS ON IMPERVIOUS SURFACE, UH, THE HAMPTON ROADS, TPO BUILDING AND WHAT THEY'VE DONE TO, UH, MAKE THAT ENTIRE PARKING LOT AND ALL THE SIDEWALKS. MM-HMM . PER PERVIOUS. YEAH. SO THAT THEY ABSORB WATER. I I THINK WE SHOULD CAPTURE THAT IDEA IN HERE SOMEWHERE, BECAUSE THAT'S, THAT'S MISSING RIGHT NOW IN OUR ORDINANCES, BUT I THINK IT'S A GREAT IDEA. NO, I, I AGREE WITH THAT. UNFORTUNATELY. DONE, OR, OR SOMETHING FAVORS THAT DRIVEWAYS OR PERVIOUS PARKING LOTS OR WHATEVER IS MORE EXPENSIVE FOR THE DEVELOPER THAN THE THE OTHER. AND, UH, I THINK WE'D ALL LIKE TO HAVE PERVIOUS. UM, BUT THERE'S A COST CONSEQUENCE. BUT YOU INCENTIVIZE THEM THROUGH, BUT THINK WHAT THEY COST. SO, AND THAT QUESTION, THAT'S A VERY GOOD QUESTION. HOW WOULD YOU INCENTIVIZE THEM TO SPEND MORE MONEY TO GIVE YOU THAT, THAT PERVIOUS SERVICE? I WILL SAY THERE ARE STORMWATER INCENTIVES. MM-HMM . AND THAT'S WHERE WE, WHERE WE'VE SEEN IT UTILIZED IN OTHER DEVELOPMENTS. AND THESE ARE EVEN LIKE FOR BYRITE DEVELOPMENTS WHERE WE'VE SEEN LIKE PERVIOUS PAVERS PUT DOWN BECAUSE THERE'S A STORMWATER BENEFIT MM-HMM . AND THEY CAN GET CREDITS. GOOD. MM-HMM . THAT'S PART OF RAFT. YEAH. IT'S PART OF RAFT. YEAH. AND THAT'S, YEP. THAT'S SOMETHING EXACTLY. FOR A LONG TIME. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. I'M GONNA MOVE ON TO PDMU. THIS NOT A LOT OF CHANGES IN THIS SECTION. 10% OF LAND AREA AND A MIXED USE PLAN DEVELOPMENT IS REQUIRED FOR OPEN SPACE. WE'RE NOT CHANGING THAT. THERE'S A REQUIREMENT FOR A CENTRAL GREEN AREA. WE'RE NOT CHANGING THAT. REALLY. WE'RE ONLY PROPOSING TWO CHANGES. WE'RE MAKING A CLARIFICATION THAT THE DIFFERENT COMPONENTS OF A MIXED USE DEVELOPMENT. SO IF THE RESIDENTIAL COMPONENT TO THE COMMERCIAL COMPONENT, YOU HAVE TO HAVE WALKED AWAY. CONNECTIVITY. SOMEBODY LIVING THERE NEEDS TO BE ABLE TO WALK SAFELY IN, IN A LOGICAL FASHION FROM THE PEDESTRIAN ELEMENT TO THE COMMERCIAL ELEMENT. SO THERE'S MY LITTLE ANIMATION NELSON'S GRANT. HE'S WALKING COMMERCIAL. THAT'S A BIG GUY'S THAT LITTER ON THOSE PICTURE . THE LAST ONE HERE IS FOR APARTMENTS. MIXED USE DEVELOPMENTS DO SOMETIMES HAVE APARTMENTS, MULTI-FAMILY DWELLINGS PROPOSED. THOSE ARE STILL SUBJECT TO THE PERFORMANCE STANDARDS FOR APARTMENTS IN A DIFFERENT SECTION OF THE ORDINANCE 4 0 4. SO FOR EXAMPLE, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A 25 FOOT LANDSCAPE YARD AROUND AN APARTMENT BUILDING. WE'RE CAPTURING THAT IN THIS ORDINANCE. SO WHEN THE DEVELOPER GOES TO BUILD THEIR CONCEPT PLAN FOR PREPARATION, IF THEY'RE GONNA HAVE APARTMENTS, THEY KNOW THAT, HEY, I NEED TO MAKE SURE I'M CAPTURING THOSE STANDARDS AND INCORPORATING 'EM INTO MY CONCEPT PLAN. THIS LARGELY COMES FROM, WE'VE HAD PAST DEVELOPMENTS WHERE THAT WASN'T CAPTURED. AND WHEN IT GOT TO THE SITE PLAN STAGE, THINGS HAD TO GET REARRANGED. SO WE'RE JUST, AGAIN, THIS REALLY IS A ALMOST A REMINDER TO THE DEVELOPER. YOU HAVE THESE OTHER PERFORMANCE STANDARDS. IF YOU HAVE APARTMENTS, THEY'VE GOTTA MEET THOSE. SOMETHING TO BE AWARE OF. SO CAITLYN, IN OUR, IN OUR REQUIREMENTS, YOU, YOU TALK ABOUT WALKING. OKAY. UM, IT ALWAYS SEEMS TO ME THAT WE REQUIRE WALKING ON, YOU KNOW, SIDEWALKS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE ROAD, UH, OR STREET. UM, AND THEN AROUND APARTMENTS. BUT DO WE EVER, DO WE EVER ASK OURSELVES, NORMALLY USE THESE THINGS. YOU GOTTA HAVE, YOU GOTTA BE GOING SOMEWHERE. MM-HMM . YOU KNOW, IT BE JUST A SIDEWALK TO NOWHERE. THAT'S ONE OF MY BIGGEST CONCERNS IS THAT THIS BOARD WOULD SPEND MONEY ON A SIDEWALK THAT GOES NOWHERE. OKAY. AND I'M JUST WONDERING IF WE EVER GIVE THAT ANY THOUGHT TO IN OUR PLANNING. GIVE ME AN EXAMPLE OF WHERE, DO YOU HAVE AN EXAMPLE OF WHERE YOU HAVE [01:50:01] THAT, A SIDEWALK THAT GOES NOWHERE? WELL, I'VE SEEN FOR A LONG TIME, FOR A LONG TIME ON THE HAMPTON HIGHWAY, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT GOT OUT AHEAD OF US, OR V AND VDOT AND VDOT GOT A LOT OF MONEY. AND THEY BUILT A SIDEWALK THAT THAT WAS YES. YEAH. THAT, THAT, THAT IS A, IT MIGHT GO TO A STORAGE FACILITY, BUT WHO'S GONNA WALK TO A STORAGE FACILITY NORMALLY STORE THINGS. YOU DRIVE CAR DOWN THERE. I MEAN, RARELY. AND, AND I HARDLY EVER SEE ANYBODY ON THAT SIDEWALK. I, I MAYBE ONE OR TWO PEOPLE. BUT WHEN WE BUILT THE SIDEWALK BETWEEN, UM, EDGEWOOD AND WOODLAKE CROSSING THAT HAD A CHURCH IN THE MIDDLE OF IT AND A-A-Y-M-C-A ACROSS THE STREET MM-HMM . AND WE HAD TO CROSS THE MAN. OH MAN. I MEAN, I'M GETTING STILL TO THIS DAY, I'M STILL GETTING EMAILS, PEOPLE GOING THIS AND THEY GOT THE PICTURE. SOMEBODY JUST SENT ME A PICTURE THE OTHER DAY AND THEY, AND IT WAS THIS SIDEWALK AND THEY SAID HOW WONDERFUL IT IS 'CAUSE PEOPLE USE IT. SO IT'S AN, IT IS AN EXPENSE THAT WE HAVE ON, UH, THAT WE DEMAND THIS STUFF. IT'S ALSO A RECREATIONAL AMENITY. WELL, HOW MANY, WELL, THAT GOES TO MY POINT ABOUT HOW MANY PEOPLE DO YOU BUILD SOMETHING? IS IT JUST THERE FOR PICTURES OR IS IT THERE TO BE ACTUALLY USED BECAUSE IT'S AN EXPENSE? SO THIS IS REALLY, UM, I'M SPEAKING TO THIS IN THE CONTEXT OF A MIXED USE DEVELOPMENT. MIXED USE DEVELOPMENT HAS TO HAVE WALKABILITY. THAT'S KIND OF THE TENANT OF THE STYLE OF DEVELOPMENT, WHICH IS WHY WE REQUIRE, YOU HAVE NEED TO HAVE PEDESTRIAN CONNECTION BETWEEN THE COMMERCIAL AND THE RESIDENTIAL ELEMENT. THAT'S AN INTEGRAL PART OF A MIXED USE DEVELOPMENT. SO IF WE SEE A PROPOSAL COME BEFORE US, THAT NEEDS TO BE INCORPORATED IN THERE, IN THAT MASTER PLAN. SO KATE, ARE YOU FINISHED WITH THAT SECTION? I AM. SO CAN WE GO OVER SECTION, UH, UH, PARAGRAPH A, UM, YOU'RE, YOU'RE TAKING THE ACREAGE DOWN FROM 10 TO FIVE. I'M ABOUT TO GET INTO THAT, SIR. UH, IN MY NEXT SLIDES. OKAY, GO RIGHT AHEAD. SO I WILL, I GET VERY DETAILED, SO, OKAY, PERFECT. THANK YOU. OKAY. SO I'M GONNA PIVOT A LITTLE BIT HERE. WE'RE GONNA TRANSITION TO THE PERFORMANCE STANDARDS FOR CLUSTER DEVELOPMENT. I'M GONNA EXPLAIN AGAIN, WHAT IS THAT? WHAT ARE WE CHANGING? WHAT WAS THE IMPETUS BEHIND THOSE PROPOSED CHANGES? SO FOR THE BENEFIT OF THOSE AT THE MEETING, I WANNA DEFINE AND EXPLAIN WHAT EXACTLY A CLUSTER SUBDIVISION IS AND HOW IT'S DIFFERENT THAN A CONVENTIONAL SUBDIVISION. MM-HMM . SO A CONVENTIONAL SUBDIVISION, AS THE NAME KIND OF IMPLIES, IS WHEN YOU HAVE A PARENT TRACT OF LAND, IT GETS SUBDIVIDED INTO LOTS. WHEN IT GETS SUBDIVIDED, THE LOTS HAVE TO BE THE MINIMUM SIZE THAT'S REQUIRED IN THE ZONING DISTRICT, THE MINIMUM WIDTH, AND BE ON A PUBLIC ROAD. SO BY WAY OF EXAMPLE, IF I HAVE A LARGE TRACT OF LAND THAT'S ZONED RURAL RESIDENTIAL, IF I WANNA SUBDIVIDED EACH LOT, I CREATE NEEDS TO BE ONE ACRE OF DEVELOPABLE AREA. IT HAS TO BE 150 FEET WIDE. IT HAS TO BE ON A PUBLIC STREET. MM-HMM . THIS IS AN EXAMPLE. THIS IS A CONVENTIONAL SUBDIVISION BARHAM TRACE. YOU CAN SEE THERE IT WAS SUBDIVIDED INTO SEVEN LOTS AS KIND OF AN INFILL PARCEL THAT GOT DIVIDED. SO THAT'S JUST KIND OF AN EXAMPLE TO SHOW YOU WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE. WHEN THE COUNTY HAD LARGER TRACKS OF JUST LAND, THIS WAS REALLY BACK IN THE NINETIES AND EIGHTIES AND MAYBE INTO THE EARLY TWO THOUSANDS, YOU SAW LARGER CONVENTIONAL SUBDIVISIONS. WE DON'T SEE THAT AS MUCH ANYMORE. CLUSTER DIVISION BY VIRTUE OF THERE'S LESS LARGE TRACKS OF LAND AVAILABLE. A LOT OF CONVENTIONAL SUBDIVISION THAT COMES INTO PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT SERVICES NOW IS SMALLER SUBDIVISIONS OF FIVE OR SIX ACRES, OR EVEN LESS THAN THAT. TWO OR THREE HOUSE LOTS. OKAY. SO WE KNOW WHAT CONVENTIONAL SUBDIVISION IS. SO WHAT IS CLUSTER SUBDIVISION? THE NAME KIND OF IMPLIES THESE ARE CLUSTERED RESIDENTIAL LOTS. THE LOTS DON'T HAVE A MINIMUM WIDTH OR SIZE. BUT THE TRADE OFF FOR THAT IS YOU HAVE A LARGE TRACT PRESERVED OPEN SPACE. MM-HMM. THEREBY, RIGHT? SO BOTH CONVENTIONAL SUBDIVISION AND CLUSTER SUBDIVISION IS PERMITTED BY RIGHT. IN SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL ZONING DISTRICTS. AND I WANNA REALLY REITERATE BETWEEN CONVENTIONAL AND CLUSTER SUBDIVISION, THE UNDERLYING DENSITY OF THE ZONING DISTRICT IS DONE ALTERED. YOU'RE NOT GETTING MORE HOUSES IN A CLUSTER DEVELOPMENT THAN YOU WOULD SUBDIVIDING CONVENTIONALLY. SO WHAT YOU SEE IN THE PERFORMANCE STANDARDS, THIS IS ACTUALLY A LITTLE FORMULA FOR A DEVELOPER TO USE. 'CAUSE THEY THINK, OKAY, WELL I WANNA DO A CLUSTER SUBDIVISION. HOW MANY LOTS DO I GET? HOW DO I CALCULATE THAT? SO THIS IS THE FORMULA THAT THEY USE. THEY TAKE THEIR NET DEVELOPABLE ACREAGE, DIVIDE THAT BUYER REDUCTION FACTOR. AND WHAT THAT IS IS ACCOUNTING FOR THE FACT YOU HAVE TO BUILD ROADS IN YOUR DEVELOPMENT. YOU CAN'T BUILD HOUSES ON THEM. YOU MULTIPLY THAT AND THEN YOU DIVIDE IT BY WHATEVER THE LOT SIZE IS OF THE ZONING DISTRICT THAT YOU'RE IN. AND THOSE REDUCTION FACTORS VARY. UM, FOR RC, BECAUSE THAT'S LESS DENSE, THAT'S THE LEAST DENSE DISTRICT. SO YOU'RE GONNA HAVE A HIGHER REDUCTION FACTOR THAN R 13, WHICH IS MORE DENSE AND A LOWER REDUCTION FACTOR. [01:55:02] I THINK THIS IS EASIER EXPLAINED IF YOU ACTUALLY SEE AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT IT'S USED. SO IN MY LITTLE EXAMPLE, I HAVE A MAGICAL, PERFECTLY RECTANGULAR PARCEL. THIS DOESN'T HAPPEN IN REAL LIFE, BUT BY WAY OF EXAMPLE WILL PRETEND 12 ACRE TRACT ZONED R 13, THE MINIMUM LOT SIZE FOR R 13 IS 13,500 SQUARE FEET OR A THIRD OF AN ACRE. SO IF I WERE TO CONVENTIONALLY SUBDIVIDE MY PERFECTLY SQUARE PARCEL ACCOUNTING FOR THE FACT THAT I HAVE COULD GET ABOUT 32 LOTS, PERHAPS EACH OF THOSE WOULD BE 90 FEET WIDE, WHICH IS THE DISTRICT MINIMUM. IT'S ACCOUNTING FOR THE FACT THAT I, OKAY, I'D HAVE TO BUILD TWO 50 FOOT RIDE RIDE AWAYS WITH ROADS. NOW IF I WERE DOING THE RAW MATH, I WOULD GET 38 LOTS. THAT PROBABLY WOULDN'T HAPPEN. 'CAUSE AGAIN, YOU HAVE TO BUILD ROADS AND THINGS LIKE THAT TO GET LOTS. IF I WERE CALCULATING THIS USING THE CLUSTER SUBDIVISION FORMULA, I WOULD MULTIPLY MY 12 ACRES BY THE REDUCTION FACTOR OF 0.8, DIVIDE IT BY THE DISTRICT MINIMUM SIZE. THAT GIVES ME A MAXIMUM OF 31 LOTS ACCOUNTING FOR ROADS. SO THESE ARE THINGS THAT, AGAIN, KIND OF A WAY OF EXAMPLE OF SHOWING THAT WITH CLUSTER AND CONVENTIONAL SUBDIVISION, YOU'RE GETTING THE SAME NUMBER OF LOTS. MM-HMM . AGAIN, IN CLUSTER, THEY'RE SMED TOGETHER AND YOU HAVE OPEN SPACE. SO WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE DEVELOPER COMES TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS AND ASKS FOR AN D UH, VARIATION AND, UH, ADDS, YOU KNOW, 15, 20 MORE HOUSES AND THEY'VE DONE THAT. WE'VE SEEN IT. THAT WOULD BE A REZONING, SIR. NO. YEAH. OR PLAN DEVELOPMENT. IF THEY'RE DEVELOPING. WELL, YOU TALK ABOUT A MINIMUM AND WE'VE, AND, UH, SMITH FARMS IS ONE OF THE, THE BIGGER, MORE EXPENSIVE MM-HMM . UH, SUBDIVISIONS. AND WE ADDED, YOU KNOW, IT WAS A, I THINK IT WAS RURAL RESIDENTIAL, WHICH IS ONE ACRE, RIGHT? MM-HMM . AND HE ZO NOT RURAL RES. YEAH. RURAL RESIDENTIAL ONE ACRE. AND, UH, THEY END UP WITH, UH, YOU KNOW, 14 AND 15 MORE HOMES BECAUSE WE PUT IT IN THERE. YEAH. HE REZONED TO R 20 IN THAT CASE. SO HE REZONED TO A MORE DENSE ZONING DISTRICT IN THAT CASE. SO YEAH, TO DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THEY WOULD HAVE TO DO WHAT WAS DONE FOR SMITH FARMS, WHERE THEY COME TO YOU FOR A REZONING. THESE ARE THE PERFORMANCE STANDARDS FOR A BUY RIGHT. DEVELOPMENT. SO IF I HAVE A RURAL RESIDENTIAL PARCEL AND I'M GONNA GO DO CLUSTER DEVELOPMENT, AND I'M NOT REZONING IT, BUT I OBVIOUSLY HAD THE VISION THAT A CLUSTER DEVELOPMENT WOULD BE THAT YOU COULD PUT YOUR HOMES AS CLOSE AS YOU WANT WITH SOME MINIMAL FOR BECAUSE OF FIRE, FIRE AND LIFE SAFETY. MM-HMM . THEN AS LONG AS YOU HAVE THE OPEN SPACE AROUND IT, HAVE MORAL EQUIVALENT. EXACTLY. YOU'RE CORRECT. CLUSTER DEVELOPMENT. OKAY. THAT STILL APPLIES, RIGHT? YEP. MM-HMM . OKAY. ALRIGHT. THE ISSUE THOUGH, AND, AND, AND I'M KIND OF WAITING TO SEE HOW THAT PLAYS OUT IN FENTON MILL, THAT'S A CLUSTER DEVELOPMENT MM-HMM . UM, WE KNOW THAT THE HOMES ARE ON TINY LITTLE POSTAGE STAMPS LOTS MM-HMM . UH, THE ROADS ARE MUCH SMALLER AS A RESULT BECAUSE THERE'S, THERE'S LESS DISTANCE TO, UH, TO CONNECT ALL OF THOSE LOTS. MM-HMM . I, I REALLY QUESTION WHAT'S IT DO FOR PARKING? WHAT ARE SOME OF THE OTHER ISSUES THAT I'M GOING TO SEE WITH A CLUSTER VERSUS A CONVENTIONAL BUILD? AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S BOTHERING ME HERE IN TERMS OF GOING FORWARD WITH A, WITH A CHANGE TO OUR CLUSTER DEVELOPMENT TO ALLOW DOWN TO FIVE ACRES. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE PROBLEMS ARE. AND, AND I'M SITTING HERE THINKING, WHY WOULD I DO THAT IF I DON'T PUT MY HOMEWORK, DO MY HOMEWORK UP FRONT AND UNDERSTAND WHAT ISSUES I'M GOING TO GET INTO. I, I'M, I'M STRUGGLING WITH THE CONCEPT OF CLUSTER SEEMS TO MAKE SENSE. IT LEAVES MORE OPEN AREA, BUT WHAT ARE THE CHALLENGES? WHAT ARE THE PROBLEMS? WHAT HAVE, WHAT HAVE OTHER COMMUNITIES, UH, FOUND IN TERMS OF, UH, DEVELOPMENT PROBLEMS WHEN THEY'VE ALLOWED CLUSTERING CLUSTER? AND I, I DON'T HAVE THAT DATA AND I'M, I'M SITTING HERE THINKING, WHY WOULD I MAKE A CHANGE UNLESS I UNDERSTAND THAT DATA? OKAY. I'M GONNA TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT PIECE. 'CAUSE WE ACTUALLY DID LOOK AT EXISTING CLUSTER DEVELOPMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN DONE SINCE 1995. SO WE WANTED TO GET A GOOD GRASP ON LIKE, WHAT WAS THE AVERAGE LOT SIZE, WHAT WAS THE AVERAGE COMMON AREA, AND THINGS LIKE THAT. BECAUSE WE WANTED TO SEE WHERE WE WERE WORKING FROM WHEN WE WERE EXPLORING SOME OF THE CHANGES WE MADE. SO I'M GONNA, I WOULD, IF YOU, IT WOULD ALLOW ME, I WANT, DO YOU WANNA TALK ABOUT THAT A LITTLE BIT? UM, AND THEN WE CAN TALK ABOUT SOME OF YOUR QUESTIONS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, I HEARD YOU MENTIONED PARKING SPECIFICALLY. AND SO IS THE, WE CAN TALK ABOUT THAT. I MEAN, IT'S A CONCERN THERE THAT I, MY LOT'S TOO SMALL AND THAT IF I HAVE THREE CARS, I CAN'T FIT THEM IN THE DRIVEWAY. IS THAT THE CONCERN? I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE I'M UNDERSTANDING YOUR CONCERN THERE. I THINK AS LONG AS, AS SOON AS YOU COMPRESS HOUSES INTO A SMALLER AREA AND REDUCE THE AMOUNT OF ROAD SPACE WE END UP WITH A PARKING PROBLEM. THAT'S JUST MY CONCERN. AND THAT'S ONE OF MY BIG PROBLEMS. OKAY. I'M NOT GONNA, I DON'T WANNA SEE ANY MORE, ANY MORE DEVELOPMENT WHERE PEOPLE HAVE TO PARK ON SIDEWALKS. MM-HMM . THIS IS MY RIGHT. RIGHT. I DON'T PROVE THIS. I DON'T WANNA SEE ANY MORE DEVELOPMENTS WHERE PEOPLE PARK ON SIDEWALKS. OKAY. I MEAN, JUST, YOU, YOU KNOW, THEY, WE PLAY A WORD GAME WITH THIS, BUT IN THE END, WE WANT A PLACE THAT PEOPLE MAY NOT WANNA MOW THEIR LAWNS. MAYBE THEY WANNA LIVE, BUT THERE BETTER BE A PLACE WHERE THEY CAN, ALL [02:00:01] THE CARS CAN PARK AND A, AND A REASONABLE NUMBER OF CARS. I MEAN, IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE BECAUSE WE'RE JUST CREATING A, WE GET BOMBARDED BY HOMEOWNERS WHO ARE UPSET WITH DEVELOPERS FOR VARIOUS REASONS. AND WHO, GOD, HOW, WHAT ARE WE GONNA DO ABOUT THE PARKING? OKAY. ARE YOU CONFUSING SINGLE FAMILY HOMES VERSUS A HOUSES THAT ARE TOGETHER? ALL OF IT ALL COMES TOGETHER. THIS IS THE SAME THING. AND WE GOT CLUSTER DEVELOPMENTS EVERYWHERE. YEAH. OKAY. YEAH. I LIVE IN ONE, SO, WELL, YES, BUT YOU GOT A LOT OF PARKING. I HAVE PARKING. I'VE GOT TWO CAR GARAGE AND I GOT CARS. I GOLF CARS BEHIND YOUR HOUSE PARK. BUT, BUT WE SACRIFICED LAND, SO WE WOULD HAVE MORE OPEN SPACE. MORE. WELL, THAT'S A GOOD POINT. THAT'S A GOOD POINT. 'CAUSE WHAT DOUG JUST SAID, THAT WE WOULD HAVE MORE OPEN SPACE WITH A CLUSTER OF DEVELOPMENT. I THINK WHAT YOU HAVE IS MORE CONTINUOUS OPEN SPACE, BECAUSE THE OPEN SPACE REQUIREMENTS ARE STILL THERE. EVEN IF THEY DIVIDED UP IN LITTLE BITS. MM-HMM. IT WOULD BE SCATTERED ALL OVER THE PLACE WITH THIS CASE. I THINK FROM WHAT I'VE SEEN IS LIKE WHEN THEY DO A CLUSTER DEVELOPMENT, LIKE IN KIM CREEK, YOU HAVE A LOT OF HOMES CLOSED TOGETHER, BUT YOU HAVE HUGE OPEN LOTS OF AROUND IT. OKAY. YES, ABSOLUTELY. BUT I THINK THE SPACE IS THE SAME, IS EXPOSED TO KIND OF WORK OUT THE SAME AMOUNT. I MEAN, IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD, IT'S THE SAME WAY. IN FACT, YOU'LL GO OUT AND YOU'LL SEE, YOU'LL SEE JUST BIG EMPTY FIELDS WITH NOTHING IN IT. MM-HMM . AND PEOPLE CAN GO OUT AND THROW FRISBEES, CHASE THEM, RUN THEIR DOGS AND STUFF LIKE THAT. SO NOW, JUST BECAUSE WE'RE CRAMMING HOMES TOGETHER AND, AND MAYBE MAKING IT MORE AFFORDABLE, WHICH IS SMITH FARMS NOT OKAY, BUT MAY, YOU'RE MAKING IT, MAKING IT AFFORDABLE. IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT WE HAVE TO DESTROY THE AMENITIES, OR WE CAN AT LEAST PROVIDE THESE FOLKS WITH SOME AMENITIES. SO WE DON'T END UP WITH LOW, YOU KNOW, LOW, NOT JUST LOW CROSS HOUSING, BUT WE END UP WITH SLUMS. OKAY. SO EARL, I GOT THIS QUESTION'S FOR YOU SINCE YOU'RE SITTING AT THE HELM NOW FOR, FOR THE TIME. UM, IS IT, IS IT THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT'S, UM, IDEA TO TRY TO PUT A HOME ON EVERY PIECE OF LAND THAT WE HAVE IN YORK COUNTY TO CRAM AS MANY HOMES AS MANY BUILDINGS IN YORK COUNTY? BECAUSE I'M CONFUSED. GO AHEAD. NO, I WOULD SAY NO. UM, THAT THIS DOESN'T INCREASE THE DENSITY AT ALL. MM-HMM . I MEAN, THIS REALLY ALLOWS, UM, THE DEVELOPMENT LESS DEVELOPMENT BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT HAVING TO FILL THE ENTIRE PROP. YOU KNOW, IF YOU'VE GOT A 20 ACRE PARCEL, YOU'RE NOT CUTTING IT UP INTO 20 LOTS. YOU MAY BE CUTTING IT UP INTO MAYBE 28 LOTS WHERE YOU HAVE 20 HOMES, AND THEN YOU'VE GOT LARGE COM OPEN SPACE AREAS OR RECREATION AREAS, THINGS OF THAT ARE, THAT ARE UNDER COMMON OWNERSHIP BY THE HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION. BUT THIS DOESN'T INCREASE DENSITY IN ANY WAY. AND NO, I MEAN, OUR, WE, WE ARE GUIDED BY THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN THAT'S APPROVED BY THE BOOK PLANNING COMMISSION AND THE BOARD THAT GOES TO THE CITIZENS. AND THAT'S WHAT WE LOOK AT WHEN WE LOOK AT LONG TERM GROWTH. SO THE REASON WE HAVE BROUGHT FORWARD THESE CHANGES TO YOU IS BECAUSE WE'VE BEEN APPROACHED BY SEVERAL PROPERTY OWNERS WHO HAVE, YOU KNOW, FIVE TO NINE ACRES MM-HMM . AND THEY CANNOT UTILIZE THIS CONCEPT BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO HAVE 10 ACRES TO UTILIZE IT. AND IF WE REDUCE OUR, OUR IDEA OF REDUCING IT DOWN IS TO ASSIST THOSE PROPERTY OWNERS TO NOT HAVE TO USE SO MUCH LAND. UM, WE HAVE A PROPERTY OWNER IN THE DARBY FURBY AREA. THEY HAVE LIKE 9.8 ACRES, AND THEY CANNOT UTILIZE THIS. THEY HAVE SOME, UM, AREAS THAT THEY CAN'T BUILD ON THAT ARE WETLANDS OR ENVIRONMENTALLY SENSITIVE. AND IF THEY WERE, IF THEY HAD THIS TECHNIQUE, THEY COULD CLUSTER ALL THE HOMES UP NEAR THE FRONT OF THE PROPERTY RIGHT ON THE ROAD, AND THEN PRESERVE THE ENTIRE BACK PORTION OF THE PROPERTY FOR OPEN RECREATION, YOU KNOW, PRESERVATION, THINGS OF THAT NATURE. UM, BUT NO, OUR, OUR GOAL IS NOT TO PUT AT HOME OR BUILD SOMETHING ON EVERY PIECE OF PROPERTY. I MEAN, WE HAVE LANDSCAPE REQUIREMENTS, THINGS OF THAT NATURE THAT IN THE ORDINANCE, UH, YOU KNOW, AS, AS CAITLYN'S EXPLAINED, IF, IF, IF SOMEBODY BRINGS YOU A REZONING FOR PLAN DEVELOPMENT, THERE ARE COMPONENTS IN THERE FOR OPEN SPACE MM-HMM . AND RECREATION. THINGS THAT WE WANT TO SEE, UM, THAT WE HAVE HEARD FROM PREVIOUS BOARDS AND THE CITIZENS, THAT THEY WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THESE KINDS OF COMPONENTS ARE INTEGRATED IN ANY KIND OF REZONING PROCESS THAT YOU DO. SO IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT IT, UM, WE NEVER BRING ANYTHING FORWARD TO YOU THAT WE, YOU KNOW, WOULD HAVE A CONCERN ABOUT THE DENSITY, WHERE WE WOULD BE RECOMMENDING FOR, UH, AN INCREASED DENSITY OVER WHAT THEY WOULD NORMALLY BE ALLOWED. OKAY. SO I'M, I'M CONFUSED. THE PREVIOUS SECTION THAT WE TALKED ABOUT, YOU GUYS MOVED IT UP AND NOT DOWN FOR OPEN SPACE HERE. YOU'RE MOVING IT DOWN. NO, WE HAVEN'T CHANGED IT AT ALL. IT'S THE SAME. IT'S STILL 10% OR FIVE ACRES. [02:05:01] OH, WE'RE, WE'RE, WE'RE DROPPING AS I, WELL, LIKE I WAS SAYING, FROM 10, 10 ACRES TO FIVE ACRES. RIGHT. SO RIGHT NOW YOU'RE REQUIRED TO HAVE 10 ACRES TO UTILIZE THIS CONCEPT AT ALL. OKAY. SO IF I HAVE, IF I HAVE 30 ACRES MM-HMM . YOU CAN DO CLUSTER, I CAN DO A CLUSTER MM-HMM . AND YOU'RE TELLING ME THAT THE DENSITY'S NOT GONNA BE ANY DIFFERENT IF I HAVE TO GIVE UP 10 ACRES AS OPPOSED TO FIVE. I, I'M, I'M NOT FOLLOWING THAT. I'M, I'M, YOU'RE SAYING THE MINIMUM, YOU'RE SAYING THE MINIMUM NOW IS GONNA BE FIVE AS OPPOSED TO 10. SO I THINK WE'RE CONFLATING DIFFERENT THINGS. WE'RE CONFLATING D THINGS. EXPLAIN. SO WHAT WE'RE SAYING IS, EXPLAIN THAT TO ME. WE'RE, SO, RIGHT NOW THE ORDINANCE SAYS IF YOU WANNA DO CLUSTER, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A MINIMUM OF 10 ACRES. SO IF YOU HAVE 10, 12, 20, 200 ACRES RIGHT, YOU CAN DO CLUSTER. OKAY. IF YOU HAVE EIGHT ACRES, YOU CANNOT DO A CLUSTER TECHNIQUE. YOU HAVE TO DO A, A NORMAL SUBDIVISION. SO YOU HAVE TO CUT YOUR PARCEL UP INTO EIGHT LOTS. NO MATTER WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE IT HAS TO BE EIGHT LOTS. SO THAT FIRST DEVELOPMENT THAT SHE SHOWED YOU, THIS ONE, YEAH. SO THIS IS, THEY DIDN'T HAVE 10 ACRES. SO THEY COULD NOT DO CLUSTER, THEY COULDN'T TAKE ALL THOSE HOMES AND, YOU KNOW, MAKE THEM A LITTLE SMALLER AND FIT IN HERE. YOU KNOW, IF THEY, IF THEY JUST DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY, BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE 10 ACRES OR MORE. NOW IF THEY GRABBED THESE OTHER PARCELS, THEN MAYBE IT WOULD'VE LOOKED A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT. UM, BUT THE ONLY THING WE'RE REDUCING IS THE MINIMUM NUMBER OF ACRES YOU HAVE TO HAVE TO BE ABLE TO USE THE TECHNIQUE. THE DENSITY DOESN'T CHANGE. IF YOU HAVE EIGHT ACRES, YOU'RE STILL PROBABLY ONLY GONNA GET EIGHT LOTS. YOU KNOW, IF YOU HAVE EIGHT ACRES, YOU MAY NOT GET THAT MANY BECAUSE THE, THE, THE FACTOR EQUATION IN THERE THAT'S IN THERE KIND OF REDUCES IT DOWN A LITTLE BIT. SO YOU MAY NOT GET AS MANY LOSSES AS YOU THINK YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO GET. I, I DON'T FOLLOW THAT RATIONALE. OKAY. BECAUSE IF I HAVE EIGHT ACRES AND I HAVE TO HAVE 10 ACRES TO DO A CLUSTER, I CAN'T DO IT. CORRECT. SO I PUT WHAT YOU HAVE RIGHT THERE. 'CAUSE I HAVE TO DO SPACE OUT. EXACTLY. BUT IF I HAVE 30, YOU'RE TELLING ME I ONLY HAVE TO FIVE ACRES OF OPEN LAND AND NOT 10 ANYMORE. SO NOW I'M PUTTING MORE HOUSES THERE. NO, SIR. WE'RE, WE'RE IN THIS. WE, OKAY. EVERY SINGLE CLUSTER DEVELOPMENT MINIMUM, 40% HAS TO BE OPEN SPACE. WE'RE NOT CHANGING THAT. WE ARE NOT CHANGING THE REQUIRED OPEN SPACE ON A CLUSTER DEVELOPMENT. WE'RE JUST EXPLAINING IF I HAVE A CHUNK OF LAND, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, OKAY, IF I WANNA UTILIZE CLUSTER SUBDIVISION PERFORMANCE STANDARDS ON MY CHUNK OF LAND RIGHT NOW, IT HAS TO BE 10 OR MORE ACRES TO EVEN DO THAT. MM-HMM . NOW YOU, WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING IS WE'RE LOWERING THAT TO FIVE. TO USE THE TECHNIQUE, YOU STILL HAVE TO HAVE THE SAME AMOUNT OF RATIO OF OPEN SPACE. HOW ABOUT A, WHAT IF, IF YOU DO, YOU GOT, LET'S SAY YOU GOT FIVE ACRES. WE GO TO FIVE ACRES. OKAY. AND IT'S A FUNCTION OF ZONING. IF THEY'RE IN RURAL RESIDENTIAL, OKAY. THEY STILL GOT, THEY CAN AND, AND THEY GOT FIVE ACRES. THEY CAN BUILD FIVE HOMES. MM-HMM . OKAY. IF YOU GO TO R 20, THEY'RE COULD GET 10 HOMES ROUGHLY. RIGHT? YEAH. OR IF, IF THEY GO DOWN, EVEN THE, IF THEY CAN GET IT REZONED TO 7 70, 500, WHATEVER THAT IS, R 13 OR SOMETHING, THEN THEY CAN PUT A LOT MORE HOMES IN THERE. BUT THEY STILL GOTTA MEET THE 40% ON THE FIVE ACRES. OKAY. RIGHT. ARE THEY ABLE HAVE, YOU HAVE TO HAVE THAT. SO YOU HAVE THE HOUSES AS YOU GO DOWN TO ZONING, YOU'RE GETTING THE HOUSES CLOSER AND CLOSER TOGETHER. MM-HMM . BUT YOU STILL GOT THE SAME, SAME PIECE OF LAND. SAME SIZE, FIVE ACRES. THAT'S ALL YOU GOT. SO IT'S KIND OF THE ZONING ASPECT OF IT THAT'S GOING TO, THAT'S GONNA TALK ABOUT THE DENSITY. THAT'S HOW YOU GET TO THE, THE REALLY, REALLY, IT'S LIKE A, YEAH. IT'S LIKE A, SO THIS DOES NOT AFFECT DENSITY AT ALL. THE DENSITY WILL BE THE SAME IF IT'S A CONVENTIONAL VERSUS IF IT'S A CLUSTER. WE'RE NOT CHANGING ANY ZONING AT ALL. LEAST MAKING DENSITY INCREASE AT ALL. SO WHEN WE TALK ABOUT ACREAGE, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT DEVELOPABLE ACRE. CORRECT. SO IT HAS TO BE, AT LEAST RIGHT NOW, IT HAS TO BE AT LEAST 10 DEVELOPABLE ACRES. YOU COULD BE ON 30 ACRES OF LAND, BUT IT HAS TO BE 10 DEVELOPABLE ACRES. RIGHT. 10 GROSS ACRES. RIGHT. SO WE'RE SAYING THE PROPOSAL IS TO REDUCE IT TO FIVE DEVELOPABLE ACRES. BUT IF YOU RE BUT THAT'S GONNA REDUCE THE NUMBER OF PLOTS THAT YOU'LL BE ABLE TO DEVELOP TO PUT HOUSES ON. IF YOU GO, IF YOU ALREADY, YOU, YOU ONLY HAVE FIVE ACRES TO WORK WITH. RIGHT? RIGHT. SO, SO THE EXAMPLE YOU GAVE, HE THE ONE DEVELOPER, HE SAID ON 9.8 CAN'T DO IT. SO WE SAY REDUCE IT BY FIVE. SO IF, IF, IF HE COULD DO IT ON 9.8, I WOULD IMAGINE HE COULD JUST THROW A NUMBER OUT THERE. HE COULD PUT SEVEN HOMES UP. IF YOU REDUCE IT TO FIVE, HE CAN'T PUT SEVEN HOMES UP BECAUSE YOU'VE REDUCED THE NUMBER OF DEVELOPABLE ACRES. AND BASED UPON, WELL, WE WENT TO SEE STILL, HE STILL HAS A NINE ACRE PARCEL. [02:10:01] HE STILL HAS A NINE ACRE PARCEL. BUT IF YOU REDUCE IT DOWN TO FIVE, THAT MEANS HE WOULD BE ALLOWED TO USE THE CLUSTER TECHNIQUE. MM-HMM. IS ALL. MM-HMM. NOW, IF HE ONLY HAD FIVE ACRES, THEN HE STILL COULD USE THE CLUSTER TECHNIQUE. RIGHT NOW HE HAS 10, OR HE, HE, HE DOESN'T HAVE 10, SO HE CAN'T MEET IT. IF YOU, IF WE TAKE IT DOWN TO OUR RECOMMENDED FIVE THAT HE'S STILL IN THAT AREA, INSTEAD, HE STILL WOULD ONLY BE ABLE TO DEVELOP, AS YOU SAID, SEVEN, MAYBE EIGHT PARCELS ON THERE. BUT THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO BE CLUSTERED NEAR THE ROAD INSTEAD OF HAVING TO CUT THE ENTIRE PROPERTY UP AND TRY TO FIT HOUSES ON. BUT IN THAT CASE THEN THE PROBLEM IS NOW YOU'RE PUTTING SEVEN HOMES ON FIVE ACRES INSTEAD OF SEVEN HOMES ON 9, 4, 8 ACRES. YOU UNDERSTAND THAT YOU'RE NOT PUTTING, YOU PUT FIVE HOMES ON FIVE ACRES. FIVE HOMES ON FIVE ACRES. LET'S JUST MAKE IT REALLY EASY. IF YOU HAVE FIVE ACRES, FIVE HOMES, IF YOU HAVE SIX ACRES, SIX HOMES, SEVEN ACRES, SEVEN HOMES, 30 ACRES, 30 HOMES. WAIT A MINUTE. DEPENDING ON THE ZONE, IF IT'S DEPENDING ON THE ZONING. IF I GOT FIVE ACRES AND ONE ACRE IS WETLANDS, DO YOU COUNT THE WETLANDS AS PART OF THE FIVE ACRES? SO THE WAY IT'S WRITTEN, THAT'S THE WAY GROSS ACREAGE. HOWEVER, WHEN I DEVELOP OR DO MY LOT YIELD CALCULATION, I CAN ONLY COUNT DEVELOPABLE ACREAGE. MM-HMM . SO WETLANDS STUFF THAT'S UNDER FOUR FOOT ELEVATION STUFF THAT'S 30% LARGER SLOPES DOES NOT COUNT AS DEVELOPABLE ACREAGE. FOR ME, TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW MANY LOTS I CAN BUILD, I JUST WANNA FIGURE OUT, I WANNA FIGURE OUT HOW MANY HOMES. IF I GOT FIVE ACRES. NOW OURS, I'M ZONED R 20. OKAY. ONE OF THOSE ACRES IS, IS A, UH, IS WETLANDS. MM-HMM . OKAY. CAN'T BE USED. DO I STILL GET TO PUT NO 10 HOMES ON IT? NO. SO YOU DON'T, SO WHEN YOU, NOW DID WE NOT GO THROUGH UP TO THE SUPREME COURT ON A BATTLE OVER THIS ISSUE AT THE BELMONT APARTMENTS? BECAUSE THEY, THEY NEEDED ANOTHER, THEY WANTED TO ADD A THIRD FLOOR. AND WHERE OUR POINT WAS THAT YOU CAN'T USE THE LAKE. AND THE, THE COURT CAME BACK AND SAID, YEAH, YOU USE THE LAKE. THAT'S WHY THEY GOT THE THIRD LEVEL OF APARTMENTS. WE JUST NOT, WE, DID WE NOT GO THROUGH THIS, UH, 20 YEARS AGO? JUST 20 YEARS AGO? THAT'S DIFFERENT. THAT'S DIFFERENT FROM WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. YEAH. MY POINT STILL, THE USE OF PROPERTY IN DENSITY. THAT'S RIGHT. SHE WAS STILL IN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL. I MEAN, THAT APARTMENTS IS A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ANIMAL THAN RESIDENTIAL SUBDIVISIONS. SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL SUBDIVISION. RIGHT. BUT THE POINT IS, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IF, IF WE MAKE LIMITATIONS BASED UPON AVAILABLE LAND, WHETHER AN DEPARTMENT OR ACROSS OUR HOME. IS, IS IS THAT ARGUMENT? WELL, I MEAN, APPLICABLE, YES. I'M TRYING NOT TO MAKE IT TOO COMPLICATED. BECAUSE YES, THERE ARE CALCULATIONS FOR REMOVAL OF PIECE. SOME OF THE LAND THAT'S NOT BUILDABLE UPON, LIKE, YOU KNOW, DOMINION EASEMENTS OR WETLANDS AS YOU BROUGHT UP, THOSE ARE NOT, THOSE ARE NOT COUNTED IN THE CALCULATIONS. SO IF YOU HAVE SIX ACRES AND THERE'S AN ACRE OF WETLANDS THAT ACRES OUT. SO NOW YOU ONLY HAVE FIVE DEVELOPABLE ACRES. DOES THAT HELP IT? YOU SAY IT SO , I'M TRYING TO MAKE SURE, I'M TRYING TO HELP EXPLAIN IT IN A WAY THAT YOU ALL OKAY. YEAH. I THINK, I THINK OUR CONCERN IS THAT WE DON'T WANT TO OVERDEVELOP AND OVER AND, AND CREATE TOO MUCH DENSITY JUST POPPING. RIGHT. JUST HOUSES UP EVERYWHERE. BECAUSE SOMEBODY CAN'T DO IT WITH WHAT? THE LAND THAT THEY BOUGHT. WELL, THEY COULD, I MEAN, THE NINE POINT ACRES, THEY COULD DEVELOP IT. RIGHT. YOU KNOW, THEY COULD, IT'S JUST GOING TO BE, THEY'RE GONNA JUST FILL THE ENTIRE PARCEL AND THEY'LL HAVE TO, YOU KNOW, DO OTHER THINGS TO, SO LET, LET'S, LET'S MANEUVER AROUND THE WETLANDS, THINGS OF THAT NATURE. LET'S, THEY'RE NOT GETTING ANY ADDITIONAL DENSITY. SO LET'S USE THIS WORD EXAMPLE. THIS 9.8 ACRES FOR THIS ONE DEVELOPER. UM, ROUGHLY CONVENTIONAL DEVELOPMENT. HOW MANY, UM, PLATS COULD THEY GET OUTTA THAT? NINE. NINE ACRES. OKAY. IN RURAL RESIDENTIAL. RURAL RESIDENTIAL. IN RURAL RESIDENTIAL, CORRECT. YEAH. ALRIGHT. UM, LET'S SAY THE, LET'S SAY THE, THEY FOUND ANOTHER 0.2 AND IT BECOMES 10 ACRES AND THEY WANT TO MAKE A CLUSTER INSTEAD OF CONVENTIONAL. MM-HMM . AGAIN. 10, UH, 10 PLATS. IT'S PO. YES. I'M GONNA JUST SAY YES. OKAY. OKAY. WE DON'T TAKE ANYTHING OUT. SO, SO, SO IF WE SAY WE'RE GONNA REDUCE IT TO FIVE, HOW MANY PLANTS COULD HE PUT ON THAT? NOW IT'S STILL THE 10. IT'S STILL, IT'S STILL 10 BECAUSE IT'S 10 ACRES. HE MADE IT 10 ACRES. IF HE, IF HE ONLY HAS FIVE ACRES, IT'S ONLY FIVE. ONLY FIVE. ONLY FIVE. ALRIGHT. SO, SO IT'S WHATEVER THE ZONING DISTRICT IS UNDERNEATH IT. SO IF IT'S RURAL RESIDENTIAL, THAT'S ONE ACRE PER LOT. WHICH IS WHAT I'M KIND OF TRYING TO STAY IN THAT ONE ACRE AREA 'CAUSE MM-HMM . I THINK IT MIGHT BE TOO CONFUSING TO JUMP DOWN. SO ESSENTIALLY REDUCING THE FROM 10 TO FIVE DOES NOT INCREASE DENSITY [02:15:02] HOME BUILDING DENSITY THAN WHAT WE HAVE TODAY. CORRECT? CORRECT. THAT IS CORRECT. IT JUST ALLOWS FOR CLUSTER BUILDING. IT JUST LETS THEM PUT THEM CLOSER TOGETHER. THEY DON'T HAVE TO BUILD AS LONG OF A ROAD. THEY DON'T HAVE TO EXTEND SEWER AND WATER AND STORM WATER LINES, ALL THOSE THINGS, WHICH HAS SOME BENEFITS. 'CAUSE THEN YOU, WE END UP WITH MORE OPEN SPACE. EXACTLY. BUT YOU STILL, YOU'RE STILL HAVING BACK TO MY ISSUE. THAT'S WHAT THE ISSUE, WHAT DID, WHAT DOES IT DO TO PARKING? BUT IS PARKING, BUT ISN'T THAT ADDRESSED? NO. FROM WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT LAST, IT HAS NOT BEEN ADDRESSED YET. YOU'VE, YOU'VE SHORTENED THE, THE LENGTH OF ROADS, YOU'VE PUT ALL THOSE HOUSES TOGETHER, THEY'RE CLUSTERED. YOU'VE GOT A LOT MORE GREEN SPACE. I UNDERSTAND THAT. BUT YOU HAVE A LOT LESS ASPHALT AND THAT MEANS THERE'S PARKING ISSUE. ALRIGHT, WELL, EXACTLY. ALRIGHT. SO HOW'S THAT ADDRESSED? OKAY, I SKIPPED AHEAD A LITTLE. THANK YOU. UM, I'M GONNA GO TO THE CHART. OKAY. SO MOVING DOWN FROM THE GROSS ACREAGE SECTION, YOU'LL SEE IN YOUR ORDINANCE, THERE'S A BUNCH OF PARAGRAPHS. THEY'RE RED, THEY'RE STRUCK OUT, AND WE HAVE A CHART. WHAT WE DID IS WE TOOK THE EXISTING REQUIREMENTS, WE PUT 'EM IN A CHART TO MAKE THEM EASIER TO READ. WE DID NOT CHANGE ANYTHING. SO THERE ARE, WHILE THERE AREN'T A MINIMUM LOT SIZE, BY VIRTUE OF THE FACT, YOU HAVE TO HAVE AT A MINIMUM, A 30 FOOT FRONT SETBACK. YOU HAVE TO HAVE A 10 FOOT SIDE SETBACK. YOU HAVE TO HAVE A 20 FOOT REAR YARD. YOU HAVE TO HAVE 20 FEET BETWEEN BUILDINGS. THAT IN ITSELF ACTS AS SOMEWHAT OF A LIMITING FACTOR TO THE SIZE OF YOUR LOT, DEPENDING ON ALSO THE SIZE OF YOUR HOUSE YOU'RE BUILDING. AND I WANNA JUST, AND THIS IS REALLY FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE PUBLIC WATCHING CLUSTER SUBDIVISION IS ONLY FOR SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL HOMES ON THEIR OWN LOT. THIS IS NOT TOWNHOUSES, THIS IS NOT DUPLEXES, THIS IS NOT MULTI-FAMILY. THESE ARE ONLY SINGLE FAMILY HOMES. MM-HMM . SO IN THE SENSE OF WHEN YOU'RE, AND THIS IS JUST TO ADDRESS THE PARKING QUESTION. SINGLE FAMILY HOMES AND SINGLE FAMILY LOTS, THEY HAVE MINIMUM YARD REQUIREMENTS. CAN'T HAVE A 10 FOOT FRONT YARD IN A CLUSTER SUBDIVISION. MM-HMM . AND THE PARKING REQUIREMENTS, WHICH WE JUST ADJUSTED. BUT AGAIN, WITH THE GARAGE, THE GARAGE CAN'T COUNT AS ITS OWN PARKING SPACE ANYMORE. SO YOU HAVE TO HAVE YOUR DRIVEWAY BIG ENOUGH TO ACCOMMODATE MORE VEHICLES NOW. AND THAT'S PART OF, AGAIN, WHAT WE DID IN LAST MONTH. WHAT'S THE WIDTH OF ROADS REQUIRED IN A CLUSTER? THE RIGHT OF WAY HAS TO BE 50 FEET. THE ROAD HAS TO MEET VDOT STANDARD. SO, AND VDOT HAS DIFFERENT WIDTHS, WIDTHS DEPENDING ON IF THERE'S ON STREETE PARKING OR NOT. SO IF THERE'S NO ON STREETE PARKING, THE WIDTH IS NARROWER. IF THERE'S ON STREETE PARKING, THE WIDTH IS WIDER. TYPICALLY WE SEE, 'CAUSE THEY DO A STANDARD ROAD. SO TYPICALLY WE SEE A ROAD WIDTH OF 39 FEET UNLESS THEY GO AND DEVELOP A PRIVATE ROAD. IF IT'S A PRIVATE ROAD, THEN WE DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT IT. IT'S GOTTA BE BEAT OUT SPECS THAT HAS TO BE BEAT OUT STANDARDS. I'LL JUST GO OVER, JUST GO LOOK AT THE RAIN BROOK VILLAGE. HOW, WHY DO YOU THINK THOSE STREETS ARE? I DON'T KNOW. THEY, THEY'RE LUCKY AS THEY'RE 15 FEET. MM-HMM . AND THAT'S SOMETHING WE'VE ALSO ADDRESSED, UM, IN THIS SECTION. THIS IS ALSO IN THE SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE. BUT AGAIN, THE SPECS FOR IF YOU'RE DOING A PRIVATE STREET, WHICH I DO WANNA NOTE FOR, AGAIN, I'M JUMPING AHEAD OF MYSELF A LITTLE BIT TIED TO WHAT WE'RE DOING WITH THE GROSS ACREAGE. WE DON'T WANT A LITTLE TINY SUBDIVISION OF PERHAPS SIX LOTS TO HAVE A PRIVATE STREET. THEY CAN'T MAINTAIN THAT. THEY CAN'T PAY THAT COST. SO WE'RE MANDATING THEY HAVE TO HAVE A PUBLIC STREET IN THE VDOT SYSTEM THAT MEETS VDOT SPECS. THANK YOU. ARE THERE ANY MORE? IF THERE ARE ANY MORE QUESTIONS, I CAN OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING UNLESS YOU HAVE MORE TO COVER. I COVERED JUST ABOUT ALL OF IT HERE. UM, WE DID, CAN WE JUST GO BACK TO THAT ONE REAL QUICK? I MEAN THAT'S, I MEAN, SO YOU JUST ACTUALLY, I MEAN THIS IS INTERESTING. YOU BASICALLY ON WHAT YOU SAID, YOU JUST, WE JUST RESTRICTED A PROPERTY TO WHERE IT CANNOT BE DEVELOPED FOR HOUSING IN SOME CASES, IF IT OF A SMALL CLUSTER, I'M NOT QUITE SURE WHAT YOU CON CONSTITUTES A SMALL CLUSTER. YOU CAN'T HAVE THE SMALL STREETS OR CAN'T HAVE PRIVATE STREETS. MM-HMM . SO THERE'S GONNA BE SOME, I'M, I'M THINK THE ONE THING, I'M THINKING OF LOTS ACRES RIGHT NOW. THAT'S, I'M NOT EVEN SURE THAT'S A CLUSTER, BUT IT'S GOT THE ROAD IN THERE. THE V KNOT WILL NOT, IF YOU BUILD A VDOT, IT'S NOT GONNA ACCEPT THE ROAD BECAUSE OF THE DRAINAGE ISSUES WITH IT. ANOTHER PART OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD WILL BE, SO IF WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE THAT WHAT YOU'RE TELLING ME WOULD BE ALMOST RESTRICT, WOULD RESTRICT THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE PROPERTY. I MEAN, YOU WOULD ACTUALLY DENY THE DEVELOPER A RIGHT TO DEVELOP THE PROPERTY. SO I'M JUST, THAT'S, THAT TO ME IS A BIG STATEMENT. NO, AND I, I, WHAT WE WANNA DO HERE IS, AGAIN, BALANCE NEEDS AND LOOKING AT CAN FOUR. SO IF YOU HAVE A SUBDIVISION OF FOUR HOMEOWNERS, CAN THEY SUPPORT THE MAINTENANCE COSTS OF A PUBLIC STREET? 'CAUSE WE WANT THE PUBLIC STREET TO BE WIDE. WE WANT IT TO BE A GOOD STREET. OUR CONCERN WAS, AGAIN, A SMALL SUBDIVISION OF, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, FOUR OR SIX HOMEOWNERS, COULD [02:20:01] THEY SUPPORT THE MAINTENANCE COSTS OF A PRIVATE STREET THAT WOULD BE VERY EXPENSIVE. AND SO, SO HOW BIG IS A CLUSTER DEVELOPMENT? AND YOU'RE SAYING FIVE FIVE ACRES WOULD BE ENOUGH TO PAY, PAY FOR A STREET, FOR A PRIVATE STREET? WE HAD CONCERNS, AGAIN, OF A SUB, LIKE OF WHAT YOU SAID, FIVE ACRES, MAYBE FIVE LOTS THAT WOULD BE CHALLENGING TO PAY THE MAINTENANCE COST FOR PRIVATE STREET. AND WE RECOGNIZE THAT, WHICH IS WHY WE'RE SAYING THESE NEEDS TO BE A PUBLIC STREET IN THE VDOT SYSTEM THAT THE STATE MAINTAINS. YOU DON'T WANT THAT COST TO, WELL, I SAY GU ON IT ACTUALLY HAS 42 STREETS OR 42 HOMES ON IT. 43 HOMES THAT'S GONNA BE BUILT. OKAY. THEY'RE BEING BUILT NOW MM-HMM . BUT PART OF THE STREETS ARE GONNA BE PRIVATE. SO THOSE THINGS ARE MILLIONS OF DOLLARS. THEY JUST SAY EXPENSIVE. SO I'M NOT SURE I UNDERSTAND WHAT, UH, WHAT, WHAT, WHAT, WHAT IS THE MINIMUM NUMBER YOU THINK THAT'S GONNA BE ABLE TO AFFORD PRIVATE STREET? BECAUSE THE CLUSTER DEVELOPMENT'S GONNA PAR, ALL THE LAND IS GONNA BE BUILT AND THE STREETS ARE GOING TO BE, HAVE TO MEET PROBABLY VDO STANDARDS ANYWAY, RIGHT? MM-HMM . EVEN IF VDOT DOESN'T ACCEPT THEM. MM-HMM . RIGHT. STREETS DO HAVE TO BE BUILT TO BE OUT STANDARD. THAT IS CORRECT. OKAY. HOW DOES THIS AFFECT, HOW DOES THIS AFFECT, UH, THE FAMILY SUBDIVISIONS? SO FAMILY SUBDIVISIONS ARE, UM, HONESTLY, THEY'RE AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT ANIMAL. IT A DIFFERENT ANIMAL. YOU, WE HAVE NEVER SEEN A CLUSTER SUBDIVISION FOR A FAMILY BECAUSE FAMILY SUBDIVISION HAVE VERY STRICT REQUIREMENTS. THE LOT HAS TO BE DUE TO AN IMMEDIATE FAMILY MEMBER. THERE'S RESTRICTIONS ON WHO THAT PERSON CAN BE. AGAIN, IT HAS TO BE LIKE YOUR CHILD OR YOUR WIFE OR YOUR PARENTS. SO THESE ARE OFTEN TWO OR THREE LOTS AT MOST. YES. BUT THOSE PEOPLE THEN CAN SELL THEIR PROPERTY TO ANYBODY. OKAY. THEY DON'T HAVE TO BE SELL, THEY DON'T BE SOLD. I MEAN, ONCE THEY'RE BUILT AND SOLD TO AND THEY CANNOT AND THEY CANNOT RE SUBDIVIDE IT, THEY CAN SELL SOMEBODY ELSE. WHICH GOES TO WAYNE'S CONCERN ABOUT ARE YOU BUILDING IT ON EVERY, ON EVERY, UH, YOU KNOW, EVERY LOT BECAUSE FAMILY SUBDIVISIONS, THERE'S A WAY OF GETTING AROUND THIS STUFF. SO I JUST REASON I BRING IT UP, I DON'T HAVE ANY ANSWER. YOU GUYS KNOW THIS BETTER THAN I DO, BUT I JUST DON'T HAVE AN ANSWER FOR THAT. BUT I'M JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND IT. I THINK WITH FAMILY SUBDIVISION THAT AGAIN, THESE ARE, WE'RE KIND OF DEALING WITH TWO DIFFERENT SETS OF REGULATION. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TWO DIFFERENT REGULATIONS RIGHT NOW. MM-HMM . MM-HMM . SO, I MEAN, JUST FOR THE PURPOSE OF THIS, I WANNA KEEP THE FOCUS ON CLUSTER PERFORMANCE STANDARDS AND CLUSTER DEVELOPMENT, IF THAT'S OKAY. OKAY. ASK FOR SOME KIND OF REPORTING. KAYLYN, YOU DID A TERRIFIC JOB. OKAY. DO YOU WANT ME TO TALK ABOUT THE RECREATION CHANGES OR DO YOU WANNA I IT'S YOUR CALL MAN. GO AHEAD. OKAY. IT'S VERY DIFFICULT, BUT I'LL DO IT AFTER. OKAY. I DO WANNA TALK ABOUT ONE CHANGE WE MADE. RIGHT NOW, CLUSTER DEVELOPMENTS HAVE TO HAVE A 45 FOOT OPEN SPACE BUFFER AROUND THE EDGE OF IT. WHAT WE SAW WITH THESE, AND THIS IS AGAIN, A LESSON LEARNED FROM EXISTING CONDITIONS, IS THE WAY IT'S WRITTEN RIGHT NOW, YOU, IF YOU HAVE WOODS IN THAT OPEN SPACE STRIP, YOU HAVE TO PRESERVE THE WOODS. WHAT WE SEE IS, OKAY, THEY PRESERVE THE OPEN SPACE STRIP OF WOODS. THE INTERIOR GETS COMPLETELY CLEARED, AND NOW YOU HAVE THIS STAND OF POSSIBLY MARGINALLY DECIDUOUS TREES THAT BECOMES EXPOSED. SOMETIMES THEY DIE AND FALL DOWN. THEY'RE SEE-THROUGH IN THE WINTER. WHAT WE WANT IS AN ACTUAL BUFFER. AND SO WHAT WE'VE PROPOSED IS YOU STILL HAVE A 45 FOOT OPEN SPACE STRIP. IT HAS TO BE VEGETATED AT A TRANSITIONAL BUFFER, A TYPE 35 TRANSITIONAL BUFFER. MM-HMM . EVERGREEN TREES AND SHRUBS TO ACHIEVE A SCREENING EFFECT. AND WE DON'T HAVE THIS PROBLEM WITH, AGAIN, EXPOSED TREES THAT BECOME DISEASED, DIE, OR AGAIN, DON'T ACTUALLY FUNCTION AS A BUFFER. EVERGREENS COULD BE PINES AND PINE TREES. YOU TALKING ABOUT PINE TREES TOO? RIGHT. I MEAN, WE WANT FULL TO GROUND EVERGREENS IN TRANSITIONAL BUFFERS. SO, OKAY, I'LL, I'LL LOOK AT SHEILA'S. YOUR DISTRICT, YOUR, YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD DOWN THERE. OH YES, I KNOW SANCTUARY. YEP. 35 FOOT 30 OR TYPE 35. IT'S GOT A MILLION PINE, LITTLE PINE TREES. THOSE PINE TREES GROW UP ALL OF A SUDDEN. WE DO. THAT'S WHY WHEN WE TAKE IN, WE, HONESTLY, WHEN WE REVIEW TRANSITIONAL BUFFERS, IF SOMEONE HAS A LO BOLL PINE, WE TELL DEVELOPER, NO, YOU'RE NOT. YOU HAVE TO DO FOLDED GROUND EVERGREEN BECAUSE LA BOLL PINES, YOU'RE RIGHT, THEY GROW TALL, THEY DON'T SCREEN ANYTHING AT ALL. RIGHT, . ALRIGHT, CONTINUE. OKAY. ONE CHANGE WE ALSO MADE, THIS IS KIND OF MIRRORS WHAT WE DID IN PLAN DEVELOPMENT. THIS WAS FOR RECREATION COMPONENTS, RECREATION COMPONENTS IN CLUSTER DEVELOPMENT. AND THIS WAS AGAIN, LOOKING AT IF WE'RE GONNA REDUCE THE GROSS ACREAGE WHERE WE HAVE SMALLER SUBDIVISIONS, WHAT KIND OF RECREATION AMENITIES CAN THEY SUPPORT? HMM. SO WE TALKED TO A BUNCH, I TALKED TO A BUNCH OF DIFFERENT HOAS OF VARYING SIZE. I TALKED TO LARGE DEVELOPMENTS. I TALKED TO SMALL ONES LIKE CLEARWATER COVE AND SAID, WHAT ARE YOUR AMENITIES? WHAT'S THE AFFORDABILITY? HOW CAN YOU, HOW, HOW ARE YOU DOING WITH ACTUALLY PAYING FOR THESE COMPONENTS? AND SO FROM WHAT I HEARD OVERWHELMINGLY FROM THE SMALLER ONES WAS WE RELY ENTIRELY ON VOLUNTEERS OR, AND BECAUSE WE CAN'T AFFORD A MANAGEMENT AGENCY AND WE CAN'T AFFORD TO MAINTAIN SOME OF THE MORE EXPENSIVE AMENITIES THAT RIGHT NOW ARE PRESCRIPTIVE AND MANDATED, SUCH AS YOU HAVE TO PUT IN A PLAYGROUND AND A PICNIC AREA AND A FIELD. SO AGAIN, KIND [02:25:01] OF MIRRORING WHAT WE DID IN PLAN DEVELOPMENT. WE'RE SAYING YOU HAVE TO HAVE THESE REQUIRED CATEGORIES OF RECREATIONAL, AMENITY, ACTIVE, PASSIVE, BOTH OF THOSE, MORE FLEXIBILITY. WHAT ACTUALLY GOES IN AND RECOGNITION OF, AGAIN, IF YOU HAVE A SMALLER SUBDIVISION, SIX PEOPLE, SIX HOUSEHOLDS, CAN THEY SUPPORT EVERYTHING WE'RE PRESCRIPTIVELY REQUIRING OR DO WE MAKE IT FLEXIBLE TO BE APPROPRIATE TO THE CONTEXT OF THE DEVELOPMENT THAT'S BEING PROPOSED? AND SO THE LAST CHANGE WE MADE, THERE'S AN EXISTING DENSITY CREDIT. THIS IS WHEN, UH, YOU VOLUNTARILY AS A DEVELOPER INCREASE YOUR RECREATION AREA ABOVE THE MINIMUM. I SEE THAT THAT WON'T WORK FOR, AGAIN, IF WE'RE GOING TO DO THIS REDUCTION FROM 10 GROSS ACRES TO FIVE GROSS ACRES, THAT WON'T FUNCTION FOR SOMETHING THAT'S UNDER 10 ACRES. SO WE'RE SAYING YOU CAN ONLY DO THAT IF YOUR DEVELOPMENT IS LARGER THAN 10 ACRES. THERE'S ALSO AN EXISTING PUBLIC FACILITY CREDIT. SO WHAT THIS IS, IS IF I DEVELOP OR SAY I'M GONNA PUT LAND ASIDE FOR A SCHOOL OR A LIBRARY, I CAN GET A DENSITY CREDIT. THIS IN THE CONTEXT OF BUYRIGHT DEVELOPMENT HAS NOT BEEN USED. WE DON'T FORESEE IT BEING USED. WE'RE PROPOSING TO STRIKE IT. AND THEN THERE'S THE PUBLIC STREET BIT THAT I MENTIONED EARLIER. ALL RIGHT, I'M GONNA TIE THIS ALL TOGETHER. WHAT WE'RE DOING REALLY IN THIS EXERCISE, WE'RE UPDATING STANDARDS. AND THIS IS BOTH FOR THE CHANGES WE'RE MAKING TO RECREATION STANDARDS FOR PLAN DEVELOPMENT AND THE PERFORMANCE STANDARDS FOR OPEN SPACE CLUSTER SUBDIVISION. AGAIN, UPDATING STANDARDS, LOOKING AT LESSONS LEARNED, WHAT'S WORKED, WHAT HAS NOT WORKED. INCORPORATING THAT. A LOT OF THIS IS, ESPECIALLY IN 4 0 2, THE SECTION WE JUST TALKED ABOUT, CLARIFYING, FORMATTING AND JUST MAKING THE ORDINANCE EASIER TO READ AND UNDERSTAND. SO AGAIN, I MENTIONED THIS EARLIER. THE PLANNING COMMISSION RECOMMENDED APPROVAL OF THIS FOR ZERO ONE ABSTAINING. SO THEREFORE STAFF WERE RECOMMENDING APPROVAL OF THIS APPLICATION. YOU CAN DO THAT BY ADOPTING 25 21 AS WRITTEN IN YOUR PROPOSED DRAFT ORDINANCE. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME. I KNOW THIS WAS A LOT OF MATERIAL. TALK ABOUT, UM, I'M HERE IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR STAFF. THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, KAITLIN, YOU DID DID A GREAT JOB. YOU'RE SUPER JOB. THANKS FOR HANGING IN THERE. JOB WITH THE SNIFFLES. I'VE GOTTA OPEN OVER THE PUBLIC HEARING NOW, AND I HAVE ONE PERSON WHO'D LIKE TO SPEAK. RON STREL NAME AND ADDRESS, PLEASE. YOU'VE GOT THREE MINUTES. THANK YOU. SO PICTURE, GOOD EVENING, RON STRUBLE 2 0 5 SHADY BLUFF POINT. UM, I WANNA TELL Y'ALL FIRST WHEN I, WHEN THIS FIRST, UH, HIT THE AGENDA AND I LOOKED AT THE, UH, DOCUMENTS WHEN THE PLANNING COMMISSION SAW IT, MY EYES WATERED. LIKE THERE WAS NO TOMORROW. SO YOUR CONFUSION WAS, I, I, I APPRECIATE PEOPLE LIKE THIS THAT CAN GO THROUGH THAT AND TRY TO MAKE SENSE OF THESE THINGS. SO I APPRECIATE THAT. UM, BOTTOM LINE UP FRONT, UM, WE SU WE THE CONSERVE YORK COUNTY FOUNDATION SUPPORT THIS, UH, UH, EFFORT HERE IN THIS, UM, RESOLUTION. I WANNA SAY I DO HAVE SOME CONCERNS WITH THE 10 ACRE, FIVE ACRE. MAYBE THAT'S TAKEN OUT. I DON'T KNOW. BUT, UM, I JUST, I DO HAVE SOME CONCERNS, ESPECIALLY WITH THE PARKING AS, AS MR. ROY DID MENTION TOO. UH, I DO WANNA MENTION ALSO THAT, UM, YOU HAVE A PICTURE BEFORE YOU, THIS IS, UH, MY FAVORITE SPRINGFIELD ROAD SECOND ONLY TO FENTON MILL. OKAY. AND WHAT I WANNA MAKE SURE, AND AND WITH, WITH, WITH KAITLYN AND EARL IS, YOU KNOW, WHAT YOU SEE HERE IS AN INSTANCE. THIS WAS SEVEN YEARS AGO. UH, WE'VE MOVED SO FAR PAST THOSE DAYS, BUT THIS IS AN EXAMPLE WHERE THIS GENTLEMAN HERE, MR. WHITE, HAS ZERO 0.0 BUFFER. OKAY? YOU CAN SEE IT ALMOST KIND OF REDUCED DOWN TO NOTHING. SO THE DEVELOPER COULD HAVE FIT TWO MORE LOTS IN ACROSS THE STREET FROM THIS ONE. THE NEIGHBOR THERE HAS FIVE LOTS, 0.0 BUFFER, OKAY. THAT THE PROPERTY LINE OF THAT HOUSE TOUCHES THE OTHER OWNER'S PROPERTY LINE. SO I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT IT'S VERY CLEAR THAT THE BUFFERS, THIS IS A CHANCE TO FIX THOSE BUFFERS IF IT'S IN THE, IN THE ZONING, UH, AMENDMENT. SO I'LL LEAVE THAT QUESTION TO YOU ALL TO SORT OUT, BUT THAT IS ONE OF OUR BIGGEST CONCERNS HERE. I WANNA TALK ABOUT THE COLLABORATION AS WELL. WHEN THIS FIRST CAME OUT, AS I SHOW YOU MY EYES WATERED, I TALKED TO EARL. I LATER TALKED TO CAITLIN, THE PLANNING COMMISSION WENT THROUGH ALL THIS. AND THE DIFFERENCE I'VE NOTICED IN THE COLLABORATION AT THE STAFF LEVEL IN THE LAST YEAR AND A HALF OR SO HAS BEEN TREMENDOUS. OKAY. KAITLYN AND EARL LISTEN TO OUR CONCERNS. UM, IT WENT THROUGH THE USUAL PROCESS, BUT WHERE I THOUGHT WE WERE REGULARLY STONEWALLED, UH, ON THE STAFF LEVEL AT TIMES, UH, I JUST FOUND A VERY OPEN STAFF WITH MR. ANDERSON AND KAITLYN IN LISTENING TO OUR CONCERNS AND, AND ADJUSTING, UH, AS NECESSARY, UH, AT SOME POINT. SO I WANNA THANK THEM VERY MUCH FOR ALL OF THIS. UH, THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO SAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. HAVE A GREAT EVENING. THANK YOU. I DON'T HAVE ANYBODY SIGNED UP, BUT IS ANYBODY LIKE TO SPEAK ON THIS ISSUE? IF NOT, I'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. AND WHAT'S THE PLEASURE OF THE BOARD? MADAM CHAIR? I'D ACTUALLY LIKE [02:30:01] TO TABLE THIS, UH, AMENDMENT. UM, I I, I'D LIKE STAFF TO COME BACK WITH A LITTLE BETTER DEFINITION ON CLUSTERING. AND WHAT HAS BEEN THE REACTION OR THE, OR THE, UM, PROS AND CONS OF THIS IN OTHER COMMUNITIES AROUND US. UM, THE WHOLE ISSUE ON PARKING HASN'T BEEN RESOLVED IN MY MIND. UM, I I JUST THINK THIS NEEDS A LITTLE BIT MORE WORK. I'M, I'M GOOD WITH THE REST OF THE PACKAGE, BUT I'M STRUGGLING ON THE CLUSTER. ON THE CLUSTER. YEAH. AND WITH THE PARKING. WITH THE PARKING AND, AND, AND I, I, I SUPPORT THAT. 'CAUSE AS WE'RE GOING THROUGH THIS, SOME, THIS IS A LOT TO DI DIGEST HERE. AND THERE MAY BE PEOPLE WHO AFTER LISTENING TO THE, UH, REVIEW, MAY COME TO ANOTHER PUBLIC HEARING WITH, UM, SOME MORE FEEDBACK. I, I BELIEVE I GOT MY HEAD WRAPPED AROUND WHAT'S HERE. THE ONLY THING I'M NOT COMFORTABLE WITH IS THE 10 TO FIVE REDUCTION IN THE CLUSTER HOME REQUIREMENT, BECAUSE I DON'T, I MUCH LIKE MR. TORO, I DON'T KNOW THE IMPLICATIONS OF THAT. AND I'M, I'M CONCERNED ABOUT GIVING A BLANK CHECK TO SAY, DO IT. AND WE'RE GONNA HOPE FOR THE BEST. I FEEL LIKE I'M TRYING TO MERGE A TRACTOR TRAILER WITHOUT A SIDE VIEW MIRROR, AND I'M JUST HOPING THAT THERE'S NOBODY THERE WHEN I MERGE. UM, MAYBE ONE OF THE CHANGES WE COULD HAVE IS MAYBE THAT REQUEST NEEDS TO BE A SPECIAL USE PERMIT TO GIVE THE BOARD A CHANCE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE ASK IS. IS IT A GOOD FIT? AND GIVE, GIVE THE COMMUNITY A CHANCE TO RESPOND BACK TO IT. UM, TO, TO, TO DO A DEVELOPMENT IN LESS, LESS THAN, LESS THAN, UM, UH, 10 ACRES. WELL, IF WE'RE GONNA, BUT IF WE'RE GONNA TABLE THIS, WE HAVE TIME TO TALK WHAT WE WANNA DO THERE. BUT I REALLY FEEL LIKE THAT WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO EVALUATE THOSE TO ME SPEC SPECIAL USE CASES AND, AND NOT JUST SAY, GO DO IT. AND HOPEFULLY IT'LL ALL WORK OUT IN THE END. SO, BUT I, AT THE END, I, I SUPPORT TABLING IT AND LET'S, LET'S, LET'S PUT A LITTLE BIT MORE WORK ON IT. MY CONCERN AGAIN, IS THE, IS IT'S EASY TO GO DOWN. IT'S VERY HARD TO GO BACK UP. SO IF WE'RE GONNA, IF WE'RE GONNA REDUCE DOWN FROM 10 ACRES TO FIVE, I REALLY WANT TO SEE WHAT THE PROS AND CONS LIKE DUG AND FIND OUT WHAT, WHAT'S SOME OF THE TRAPS THAT WE'RE GONNA FIND THAT COULD BITE US IN THE BUTT LATER ON. AND THEN WE'RE BACK UP HERE GOING, UH, OH, WE MADE A MISTAKE, LIKE UP HERE AT, UM, BEHIND THE, UH, FOOD BESIDE THE FOOD LINE, PARKING ALL UP IN THE DRIVEWAY AND SIDEWALKS AND ALL THAT STUFF. WE, WE, THAT WAS A BAD DEAL. SO WE CHANGED THAT. I JUST DON'T WANNA CHANGE THIS JUST TO BE CHANGING IT. GO. I THINK THIS IS GONNA WORK PERFECTLY BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE ALL THE INFORMATION. I THINK I'D LIKE TO SEE MORE, I'D LIKE TO GET MORE EDUCATION ON WHAT OTHER JURISDICTIONS, OTHER COUNTIES ARE DOING AND WHAT ARE SOME OF THEIR CONCERNS. WHAT ARE, WHAT ARE SOME OF THEIR ISSUES THAT THEY'RE HAVING WITH THESE? AND IS PARKING A PROBLEM? WELL, THAT, THAT WOULD BE MY RECOMMENDATION. MY ONLY ISSUE WITH THIS IS THAT, UH, A LOT OF WORK IS, HAS GONE INTO THIS, THE PLANNING COMMISSION IS RUN THROUGH IT, AND WE DO CHANGE THE ORIGINS AS ISSUES COME UP AND WE REALIZE, BUT THIS HASN'T BEEN PUT IN PLACE YET. SO I WOULD SAY WE SHOULD VOTE FOR IT. AND THEN IF IT HAS TO BE ADJUSTED, WE CAN STILL, WE CAN DO THAT LATER ON. BUT BASICALLY THIS IS, THIS IS A GOOD ORDINANCE. WELL, SHEILA, I CAN'T, UH, I I, I, I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING AND, AND I, AND, UH, EARL, YOU AND KAYLYN HAVE, I MEAN, THE STAFF HAS DONE A, I MEAN, THE QUESTIONS I WAS ASKING, I THINK THREADS BACK OVER 20 SOME YEARS. OKAY. KNOW? AND, UM, YOU JUST MADE A GREAT STATEMENT, UH, ABOUT, UM, YOU KNOW, I THINK BACK, YOU KNOW, RON, YOU KNOW, YOUR, THE PROBLEMS THAT YOU GUYS HAVE AND DOUG, THE THINGS YOU HAD UP IN YOUR DISTRICT, AND YOU SAW THESE COMING ABOUT, AND I THINK OF THE BOARDS THAT ALL THE BOARDS HAVE COME BEFORE, YOU KNOW, THAT I'VE BEEN ON BEFORE THIS. AND IT WAS THE PROBLEM. WE HAD NO IDEA OF THE IMPACT OR WE WOULD NOT HAVE PASSED THIS STUFF. RIGHT. OKAY. AND I MEAN, EVEN, EVEN WHEN WALT WAS ON THE BOARD, HE HAD NO IDEA. I MEAN, WE, A LOT OF TIMES WE JUST RELY ON THE SUPERVISOR FROM THAT DISTRICT TO GIVE US A THUMBS UP OR THUMBS DOWN. AND IF THE SUPERVISOR DOESN'T REALLY UNDERSTAND IT OR DOESN'T STEP UP TO ASK THE QUESTION OR JUST DOESN'T KNOW WHAT TO ASK, WE END UP CREATING STUFF. AND IT, AND THEN ONCE IT'S BUILT, OH MY GOD, THERE'S NO COMING BACK FROM IT. RIGHT? RIGHT. SO, UH, I'M, I'M NOT OPPOSED TO THIS EFFORT. I MEAN, THIS WAS TREMENDOUS, VERY, IT'S EDUCATIONAL. AND, AND, AND I WASN'T CONFUSED WHEN I, I WASN'T CONFUSED ABOUT OPEN SPACE AND RECREATIONAL SPACE AND, AND ALL THAT STUFF BECAUSE I'VE LIVED THROUGH THIS ALREADY. OKAY. I UNDERSTAND IT. BUT WHAT, WHAT HAPPENS IS I NEED TO, I NEED, [02:35:01] I NEED TO HAVE IT SO THAT ANYBODY THAT LIVES IN A NEIGHBORHOOD THAT BUTTS UP AGAINST THIS STUFF OR HAS TO LIVE WITH, UNDERSTANDS WHAT WE'RE DOING. AND WE'VE GOT TO HAVE THEM UNDERSTAND IT. I HAVE A GREAT UNDERSTANDING OF THIS. I JUST DON'T THINK PEOPLE AROUND ME HAVE IT. AND I CAN'T COMMUNICATE WITH FOLKS IF THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT WE'RE HELL WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. SO, GOOD CASE OF POINT IS THIS SLIDE. GREAT SLIDE. UH, ONE OF THE PROBLEMS I'VE ALWAYS HAD IS WE HAVE NO BUFFER BETWEEN RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY. THERE IS NO BUFFER. OKAY? EXCEPT WHEN A BUSINESS IS THERE. AND THERE WAS A TIME WHEN A BUSINESS, WHEN YOU WERE, WHEN A BUSINESS WAS, WHETHER YOU BUILT FIRST OR THE BUSINESS WAS BUILT FIRST, THAT THAT BUFFER ACTUALLY CAME OVER TO THE HOMEOWNER'S RESPONSIBILITY. AND SO THEY COULDN'T USE THEIR PROPERTY. SEE, THESE KIND OF THINGS YOU HAVE TO STUMBLE ACROSS WHEN A HOMEOWNER COMES UP TO YOU AND GOES, I CAN'T USE MY PROPERTY. WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU GUYS DOING UP HERE? SO I WANT US TO HAVE THIS TIME A REALLY GOOD UNDERSTANDING. IT'S A MAJOR CHANGE. CAITLYN, YOU SAID IT AS A MAJOR CHANGE. IT IS A LOT OF STUFF. ALTHOUGH IT MAY BE SUBTLE. WE GOT A WHOLE BUNCH OF NEW BOARD MEMBERS UP HERE AND WE GOT A COUPLE OLD BOARD MEMBERS HAVE LIFTED THIS, AND WE GOTTA UNDERSTAND THIS STUFF BETTER. OKAY. WE JUST GOTTA UNDERSTAND IT. SO LET'S GO BACK AND DIGEST THIS A LITTLE BIT BETTER. THE FIVE ACRES I THINK IS INTERESTING. OKAY. I JUST THINK IT'S INTERESTING. I'M NOT NECESSARILY OPPOSED TO IT. I'M NOT, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT NECESSARILY FOR IT. I JUST DON'T, I JUST WANNA UNDERSTAND WHAT THESE EFFECTS ARE GOING TO BE AND I'M NOT SURE I'M READY TO RUN OUT AND, AND THEN CREATE BUFFERS IN RESIDENTIAL BETWEEN RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY, BECAUSE WE STILL HAVE A LOT OF LAND THAT'S NOT GOING TO BE, UM, CLUSTER. OKAY? MM-HMM . AND, AND SO I DON'T WANNA NECESSARILY PUT RESTRICTIONS, BUT A LOT OF OUR HOMEOWNER ASSOCIATIONS AND I LIVE IN ONE, UH, THAT HAS A 50 FOOT BUFFER ALL THE WAY AROUND THE NEIGHBORHOOD. OKAY. AND IT'S JUST NATURAL TREES AND STUFF LIKE THAT. AND IT'S GREAT. NOT ALL NEIGHBORHOODS HAVE THAT. A LOT. A LOT OF NEIGHBORHOODS DON'T HAVE. SO ANYWAY, I, I, I THINK WE NEED TO COME BACK AND JUST, WE GOT QUESTIONS. WE GOT SOME, WE GOT THE, AND THE THING IS, SHEILA, THE BOARD NEEDS A TALK AND I NEED HEAR YOUR QUESTIONS AND YOUR CONCERNS AND YOUR, AND SO I CAN GET THE, I CAN EITHER BUILD ON IT OR IF WE CAN ANSWER IT. OKAY. YOU KNOW, THAT'S, THAT'S VERY INTERESTING, TOM. I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO THIS ONE BECAUSE THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO OWN NOT 10 PLUS ACRES, BUT SMALLER ACRES THAT THEY WOULD LIKE TO BE ABLE TO DEVELOP IN THIS WAY. AND THIS OPENS THE DOOR FOR THEM TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT. AND I HAVE ONE IN MY DISTRICT, FOR EXAMPLE, WAS ALL SET TO GO TO DO IT, UH, BECAUSE NOW THEY CAN ACTUALLY DO IT BECAUSE THE ACREAGE IS NOT 10 ACRES. I MEAN, THEY'VE GOT LIKE NINE AND A HALF ACRES OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT NOW BECAUSE THIS HAS BEEN PRESENTED AND IT'S PASSED THROUGH THE PLANNING COMMISSION. THEY HAVE PLANS TO DEVELOP THAT FOR THEIR CHURCH AND THEIR PEOPLE. AND SO, BUT THE, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE ALL HAVE TO THINK ABOUT BECAUSE THERE ARE PEOPLE OUT THERE THAT HAVE SMALLER PLOTS OF LAND THAT THEY WOULD LIKE TO BE ABLE TO DEVELOP AND THIS OPENS IT UP FOR THEM TO DO. SHEILA, THIS, THIS IS, I DON'T THINK WE'RE TURNING IT DOWN. I THINK. NO, WE'RE NOT SAYING NO. HOW LONG WOULD IT TAKE YOU TO GET PUT TOGETHER A PACKET TO BRING BACK TO US? TWO MONTHS? UH, WE, WE COULD HAVE IT FOR YOU. UH, WHICH WE, AND WE WOULD, WE, UH, WE CAN DO RESEARCH TO FIGURE OUT TO THE NEXT MEETING. I JUST HAVE A CLAR CLARIFICATION QUESTION. SO IT SOUNDS LIKE WHAT THE CONCERNS ARE, OR WITH THE OPEN SPACE CLUSTER DEVELOPMENT MM-HMM . RIGHT? NOT NECESSARILY THE PLANNED DEVELOPMENT RECREATION CHANGES. NO. CORRECT. SO WOULD YOU BE OKAY IF WE MOVE THE RESOLUTION FORWARD JUST STRIKING? YES. THE OPEN SPACE CLUSTER. OH, OKAY. LET'S LET, LET'S LET THE COUNTY ATTORNEY YEAH. I, IF I MAY, MADAM CHAIR, THE ONLY PROBLEM I HAVE WITH THAT IS YOU PROBABLY HAVE TO RE ADVERTISE THE NEW CLUSTER PORTION BECAUSE IT WOULD BE A WHOLLY NEW, RIGHT? YEP. FOR SURE. THING. JUST KEEP THEM TOGETHER. SO IF YOU WANT TO, IF IT'S ONLY GONNA BE FOR A BRIEF PERIOD OF TIME, I THINK IT MAKES MORE SENSE TO CONTINUE THE ENTIRE, CONTINUE THIS THE ENTIRE DAY. WE'RE TALKING 30 DAYS, YOU SAID Y'ALL THINK YOU CAN. AND THEN IF THEY ULTIMATELY DETERMINE, DON'T WE JUST PUSH IT BACK 30 DAYS? WE CAN YEP. WE WOULD JUST SUGGEST TABLE IT TO THE NEXT MEETING. YEAH. PUSH IT NOT NEXT PUBLIC HEARING SESSION CONTINUE TO THE REGULAR BOARD MEETING. CORRECT. TO THE REGULAR, NOT THE WORK SESSION, BUT OCTOBER, GIVE THEM FULL MONTH, OCTOBER, SEPTEMBER. I'M LOOK, AND IF YOUR DESIRE IS TO CONTINUE IT TO A MEETING WHERE YOU CAN RECEIVE PUBLIC COMMENT AGAIN, THEN I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT YOU REOPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING. CONTINUE THE PUBLIC HEARING. MM-HMM . TO A MEETING WITH A PUBLIC HEARING. AND IF THE DESIRE OF THE BOARD AT THAT MEETING IS TO GET RID OF, OR TO NOT PURSUE THE CLUSTER PART, YOU CAN STRIKE THAT ALL OUT OF THE ORDINANCE AND THEN PASS EVERYTHING ELSE. YEAH. AT THAT [02:40:01] TIME, I, YEAH. I RECOMMEND JUST TABLE IT FOR A MONTH. WHAT DID YOU SAY? TABLE IT FOR A MONTH. TABLE IT FOR A MONTH. SPECIFICALLY WE WANT TO, WE WANT TO REOPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING AND CONTINUE THE PUBLIC HEARING TO THE NEXT PUBLIC MEETING. RIGHT. RIGHT. WHAT WHATEVER DATE YOU CHOOSE IN SEPTEMBER, THIRD WEEK IN SEPTEMBER. AND AND TO, AND TO YOUR POINT, I, I THINK IF A DEVELOPER CAME TO US AND SAID, I HAVE 9.8 ACRES, I WANNA DO CLUSTER, BUT I GOTTA HAVE 10, WOULD YOU LET US DO THAT? WE'D, WE'D PROBABLY, YEAH. WE'RE NOT GONNA HOLD YOU TO TWO, BUT WE'RE BEING ASKED TO TAKE IT FROM 10 TO 10 TO FIVE. AND AGAIN, I DON'T KNOW THE IMPLICATIONS OF THAT WELL ENOUGH TO FEEL COMFORTABLE GOING. YEAH. THAT'S WHY WE NEED SOME MORE TIME TO DIGEST THIS AND UNDERSTAND IT. TO SPEAK TO MR. ROY'S CONCERNS ABOUT PARKING AND ALSO MAKE IT, WE DO NOT WANT TO OVER DEVELOP OVERDEVELOP YORK COUNTY. I THINK THE FEEDBACK WE'RE GETTING, THAT MAY NOT BE A CONCERN. BUT BEFORE WE RUSH INTO THIS, LET'S JUST, LET'S JUST TAKE A PAUSE. OKAY. DIGEST A LITTLE BIT BETTER. WAIT, SHEILA, SHEILA, HANG ON. HANG ON A SECOND. WE'RE NOT THE DISCUSSION HERE. OKAY. SO HERE'S A QUESTION I GOT FOR YOU. SO ONE OF THE THINGS, IF I WOULD, IF I OWNED 9.8 ACRES AND WE CAME UP WITH THIS, THIS PROPOSAL AND, AND I WANTED TO MAXIMIZE MY RETURN, I'M GONNA COME IN HERE AND ASK FOR REZONING. IF IT'S, IF IT'S R ONE, I'M GONNA COME IN AND ASK FOR AN R 20. IF IT'S R 20, I'M GONNA COME IN AND ASK FOR SOMETHING SMALLER THAT WOULD, WOULD, THAT WOULD WORK WITHIN THIS, THE SCHEME. NOW, IF IT'S NOT IN THERE TO DO THAT, THEN WE NEED TO MAKE IT VERY CLEAR THAT IT'S NOT, OR MM-HMM . PUT WHATEVER RESTRICTION. SO IF OUR, IF OUR CONCERN IS OVERDEVELOPMENT, YOU KNOW, IS IT, IS OVERDEVELOPMENT BECAUSE WE HAVE ALLOWED, UH, TIGHTER CLUSTERING OF HOMES? OR IS IT NOW WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO, 'CAUSE I GUARANTEE YOU, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO FACE THE REZONING IS GONNA BE PROPOSED. MM-HMM . YOUR CONSTITUENTS. WE CAN VOTE IT DOWN. ESPECIALLY YOU GUYS UP HERE. IT'S GONNA BE, YOUR GUYS ARE GONNA BE COMING BACK. 'CAUSE YOUR CONSTITUENTS GONNA BE LEANING ON YOU TO REZONE THE PROPERTY. MM-HMM. SO THEY CAN MAKE IT TIGHTER CLUSTER. YEAH. OKAY. AND WE WILL HAVE TO ADDRESS THAT. YEAH. EARL, DID YOU HAVE SOMETHING YOU WANTED TO ADD TO THIS? NOPE. MR. SHE DID AN AMAZING JOB OF EXPLAINING WHAT I WAS GONNA SAY. . . YOU JUST SEE THE, SEE THE STORM COMING THIS WAY. OKAY. WE HAVE A MOTION, I BELIEVE TO TABLES. SO I THINK WE HAVE A MOTION TO REOPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING AND CONTINUE THE PUBLIC HEARING TO THE NEXT, CONTINUE THE PUBLIC HEARING. CONTINUE MEETING. CONTINUE. WE'RE CONTINUING THIS TO FOR ONE MONTH. ONE MONTH. YES. THE WAY WE ARE, BUT WE HAVE TO HEARING SEPTEMBER 16TH. BUT WE HAVE TO REOPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING. 'CAUSE YOU CLOSED IT A MOMENT AGO. SO WE HAVE TO, THAT'S THE MOTION IS TO HAVE TO REOPEN IT, REOPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING. AND CONTINUE THE PUBLIC HEARING TO THE NEXT SCHEDULE. 16TH, SEPTEMBER 16TH. THE OPTION IS UP TO US TO WHETHER WE'RE GONNA HAVE A OKAY. YOU GOT YOUR WORK CUT OUT. SO I'M NOT SURE. THAT'S A BIG DEAL. THANK Y'ALL. SO THE MOTION IS TO CONTINUE THE PUBLIC HEARING. YES. UH, TO SEPTEMBER 16TH. BUT BEFORE YOU, BEFORE YOU DO THAT, JUST SAY THE MAGIC WORDS. I REOPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING. THAT'S YOUR PREROGATIVE AS CHAIR. JUST SAY, REOPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING. REOPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING. YES. THERE WE GO. OKAY. THAT'S IT. AND MADAM, NOW THE MOTION IS TO CONTINUE THE PUBLIC HEARING UNTIL THE TWO, THE 16TH. YES. THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT I SAID, BUT I MADAM CHAIR, WHO MADE THE MOTION? DOUG? I DID. DOUG. OKAY. THE MOTION MADE BY MR. ROY IS TO CONTINUE PROPOSED ORDINANCE NUMBER 25 DASH 21 TO THE SEPTEMBER 16TH BOARD OF SUPERVISORS MEETING MR. HORO. YES. MR. DREWRY. YES. MR. ROHN. YES. MR. SHEPHERD. YES. MRS. NOLL. YES. MOTION CARRIED. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. [6. Proposed Amendment to Chapter 7.1, Building Regulations, of the York County Code. Consider adoption of proposed Ordinance No. 25-22 to amend York County Code Chapter 7.1, Building Regulations, to incorporate provisions concerning the maintenance of pool enclosures. a. Memorandum from the County Administrator b. Press Release from the Virginia Department of Health c. Proposed Ordinance No. 25-22] UM, THE NEXT PUBLIC HEARING WE HAVE IS PROPOSED AMENDMENT TO CHAPTER 7.1 OF THE BUILDING REGULATIONS OF THE YORK COUNTY CODE SA. OKAY. SO, OKAY. THANK YOU. UH, MADAM CHAIR, MEMBERS OF THE BOARD, THANK YOU FOR, UH, YOUR TIME THIS EVENING. UM, FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE UNAWARE, I'M THE BUILDING OFFICIAL NOW HERE IN YORK COUNTY. I'VE BEEN HERE FOR ABOUT NINE YEARS AND IT'S, UH, AN HONOR TO HAVE BEEN SELECTED FOR THAT. SO THANK YOU MR. BELLAMY. YOUR NAME, UM, I'M SORRY, YOUR NAME? OH, COREY CORNY. SORRY. THANK YOU COREY. THANK YOU. UH, LITTLE NERVOUS. YOU GUYS ARE, UH, KIND OF INTIMIDATING . UM, SO, UH, I PROMISE TO KEEP THIS, UH, NOT IN THE LEAST BRIEF. IT'S JUST US AND WE DON'T, WE DON'T KILL AND COOK THE STAFF AND EAT 'EM. I PROMISE TO KEEP THIS BRIEF AND, UM, NO MATH THIS TIME. SO YEAH. OKAY. WE'RE GONNA FIND A PIE FOR YOU. YEAH, THAT WAS, THAT WAS INTERESTING. I USUALLY GET TO WATCH THESE BEEN, I'M USUALLY WATCHING THESE AT HOME ON MY PHONE, SO IT'S KIND OF NICE TO BE HERE IN PERSON AND, AND WITNESS PIE TO THE FACE. THAT'S NOT SOMETHING YOU USUALLY GET. SO, UM, UH, I SAID NO MATH, BUT THERE ARE SOME HORRIFYING NUMBERS THAT I DO HAVE TO SHOW YOU HERE. SO THIS WAS SENT TO ME, [02:45:01] UH, AS WELL AS ALL THE OTHER BUILDING OFFICIALS IN THE COMMONWEALTH BY THE STATE BUILDING CODE'S OFFICE. UM, AND THERE HAS BEEN AN INCREASE IN CHILD DROWNINGS THIS YEAR AND VIRGINIA SWIMMING POOLS. UM, THIS PROPOSED, UH, AMENDMENT TO THE PROPERTY MAINTENANCE PORTION OF THE BUILDING REGULATIONS CHAPTER 7.1, UM, IS AN ATTEMPT TO CURB THAT HERE. I DON'T BELIEVE IN THE NINE, ALMOST NINE YEARS I'VE BEEN HERE THAT WE'VE HAD ANY CHILD DROWNINGS IN POOLS. AND I WOULD LIKE TO KEEP IT THAT WAY. MM-HMM . UM, SO ESSENTIALLY THIS, UH, PROPOSED AMENDMENT WOULD GIVE ME THE AUTHORITY TO, UH, SORT OF ENFORCE MAINTENANCE OF POOL ENCLOSURES FOR ALL EXISTING POOLS, COMMERCIAL, RESIDENTIAL, OTHERWISE WITHIN THE COUNTY. UM, AND JUST TO SORT OF CUT IT OFF, 'CAUSE I KNOW IT'S, UH, IT'S PROBABLY GONNA COME UP, THIS APPLIES TO EXISTING POOLS. UM, NEW POOLS ONCE WE'VE GOTTEN OUTSIDE OF OUR TWO YEAR GRACE PERIOD AFTER, AFTERWARDS FOR, UH, REGULAR PERMIT ENFORCEMENT ONCE THE POOL WAS COMPLETED. AND THIS ONLY APPLIES TO THE CODE AT THE TIME, THAT WAS IN EFFECT AT THE TIME IN WHICH THE POOL WAS BUILT. SO YOU WOULDN'T BE REQUIRED AS A POOL OWNER TO RETROACTIVE UPGRADE YOUR STANDARDS AROUND YOUR POOL PERIMETER. UM, YOU WOULD JUST BE REQUIRED TO MAINTAIN IT AS IT WAS DESIGNED AND INSTALLED UNDER THAT CODE SECTION. COREY, I HAD A QUESTION FOR YOU THOUGH. ABSOLUTELY. IF I READ THE READING OR THE MM-HMM . THE END OF THE SECOND PARAGRAPH, IT SAID, UH, HOWEVER, ONCE THE INSTALLATION SURPASSES TWO YEARS FROM FINAL INSPECTION, THE BUILDING OFFICIAL HAS NO AUTHORITY TO ENFORCE BARRIER VIOLATIONS. THAT'S CORRECT. IS THAT BEING CHANGED OR IS THAT STILL THE CASE? NO. WHY WOULD, WHY WOULD WE, WHY WOULD WE DO THAT? LIKE, THAT'S CRAZY. SO THE WAY IT WORKS IS STATE CODE, I HAVE TWO YEARS UPON THE, AFTER THE COMPLETION OF THE FINAL INSPECTION OR THE DATE OF THE CO DEPENDING ON WHAT IT IS, UM, TO FIND ANY VIOLATIONS AFTER THE FACT. ONCE I GET OUTSIDE THAT TWO YEARS, I DON'T HAVE THAT ABILITY. HOW DO WE CHANGE THAT? WELL, THE PROPERTY MAINTENANCE CODE COMES IN AFTER THAT. SO OKAY. YOU AS THE BOARD HAVE THE ABILITY TO ADOPT ANY PORTIONS OF THAT CODE THAT YOU WISH. WE HAVE A COUPLE THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN ADOPTED THAT YOU PROBABLY WOULD SEE IN THAT. UM, IN THAT AMENDMENT IN FRONT OF YOU, I'M JUST ADDING A SECTION ABOUT POOL ENCLOSURES THAT IS ALREADY EXISTING IN THE PROPERTY MAINTENANCE CODE. SO JUST ASKING THAT WE INCLUDE THAT ONE IN THE BUNDLE THAT WE ALREADY HAVE FOR PROPERTY MAINTENANCE. I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT 10 YEARS DOWN THE ROAD, 20 YEARS DOWN THE ROAD, WE HAVE AUTHORITY TO GO ON THAT PROPERTY AND INSPECT IT AND MAKE SURE THAT, THAT THAT BARRIER IS UP TO DATE. 'CAUSE PEOPLE DON'T KEEP THEM UP AND THAT'S HOW KIDS DROWNED. ABSOLUTELY. YEAH. AND SO I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE IF IT'S IN SOME OTHER ORDINANCE THAT WE, WE ARE NOT LIMITED TO TWO YEARS AND, AND WE CAN DO SPOT INSPECTIONS OR SOMETHING THAT, OR, OR A COMPLAINT COMES IN AND SAYS, HEY, MY NEXT DOOR NEIGHBOR, THE POOL IS WIDE OPEN THE FENCE, THE GATE STAYS WIDE OPEN, WHATEVER. AND THAT'S WHAT, THAT'S WHAT PROMPTED THIS CHANGE IS I'VE GOTTEN SEVERAL OF THOSE CALLS JUST SINCE FEBRUARY WHEN I TOOK OVER. OKAY. UM, AND YOU DON'T LIKE GETTING THEM 'CAUSE YEAH, ESPECIALLY KNOWING THAT I CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT NOW. SO THAT'S WHAT, I GUESS AFTER A FEW OF THEM THAT I DIDN'T LIKE TO RECEIVE AND, YOU KNOW, FINDING OUT THAT I'M BEYOND THE TWO YEAR LIMITATION THAT I HAVE, UM, I, I REALLY NEEDED TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. SO I MADE A PROMISE TO THE LAST HOMEOWNER I SPOKE TO THAT I WOULD BRING THIS TO YOUR ATTENTION. SO, UM, SO HERE WE ARE, YOU HAVE TWO YEAR LIMITATION AS A BUILDING THIS SPACE CURRENTLY CURRENT. SO, SO CURRENTLY UNDER THE VIRGINIA CONSTRUCTION CODE OR VIRGINIA RESIDENTIAL CODE THAT IT WOULD BE BUILT UNDER, I HAVE TWO YEARS AFTER THE COMPLETION OF THE FINAL INSPECTION TO FIND ANY OPEN VIOLATIONS. WHETHER THEY OCCURRED BEFORE OR AFTER. RIGHT. REALLY HAS NO BEARING ON IT. BUT AT THAT TWO YEAR POINT, THEN IT BECOMES PROPERTY MAINTENANCE, A PROPERTY MAINTENANCE ISSUE. CORRECT. OKAY. AND WE'RE, AND WE'RE CHANGING THE CODE TO SAY YOU HAVE TO CONTINUE THAT SAFETY STANDARD. YES, SIR. ONCE YOU MOVE INTO THE, INTO PROPER MAINTENANCE SPACE. TWO. AND IS THAT INDEFINITE? YES. OKAY. THAT'S FOR THE LIFE OF THE POOL BUILDING, WHATEVER IT'S, AND THAT'S UNDER THE MAINTENANCE CODE? YES, SIR. OR ORDINANCE. CORY, CAN YOU GIVE US SPECIFICS AS TO HOW THIS IS GONNA HELP YOU, UH, KEEP KIDS FROM DROWNING ? SO ESSENTIALLY THIS GIVES ME THE AUTHORITY TO ENFORCE THAT PEOPLE MAINTAIN THEIR POOLS. OKAY. WHEN YOU SAY MAINTAIN A POOL, ISN'T IT ACCESS TO THE POOL? IS THAT, IS THAT IT'S A BARRIER. SO I MISSPOKE THE POOL ENCLOSURE. THE BARRIER ITSELF? YEAH. YEAH. SO THE ENCLOSURE, THE SAFETY AROUND KEEPING PEOPLE OUT OF THE POOL AREA WHO DON'T BELONG THERE, LIKE SMALL CHILDREN, UM, IS, IS REALLY WHAT WE'RE, WHAT WE'RE GOING FOR HERE. SO IT'S A BARRIER AROUND, THERE GENERALLY IS A FENCE OF SOME TYPE, RIGHT? TYPICALLY WALL FENCE, LOCKED CHAIN, LINK FENCE, WOOD FENCE. ARE WE CHANGING OR IS THAT, UH, THE STATE CODE THAT DICTATES THE MINIMUM? OR IS THAT, UH, A LOT OF TIMES IT'S INSURANCE COMPANIES WILL DICTATE IF YOU DON'T HAVE A SIX FOOT FENCE. BUT I THINK IF VIRGINIA'S FIVE, WHAT? I MEAN, IS IT ANYTHING, ANYTHING ABOUT THAT? OR ARE WE CHANGING HERE? NO, SO WE'RE NOT, WE'RE NOT CHANGING ANY OF THE REGULATIONS [02:50:01] ON THE BARRIERS THEMSELVES OTHER THAN THIS ORDINANCE ONLY GIVES ME AUTHORITY AFTER THE TWO YEAR STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS THAT I HAVE TO ENFORCE MAINTENANCE OF THAT BARRIER UNDER THE CODE UNDER WHICH IT WAS BUILT. SO IF YOU BUILT YOUR POOL 20 YEARS AGO, I NOW CAN TELL YOU, HEY, YOU HAVEN'T MAINTAINED YOUR POOL BARRIER FOR 20 YEARS. NOW YOU NEED TO START MAINTAINING IT. 'CAUSE SO WHAT'S THE END GAME OF THIS? NOT IF THEY DON'T RESPOND, DO YOU GET, YOU TELL 'EM AND THEY DON'T RESPOND. SO IT BECOMES A, A CIVIL PENALTY, MUCH LIKE A, UH, ZONING VIOLATION WOULD BE GRASS OR SOMETHING OF THAT NATURE. SO IT WOULD BE, IT WOULD START WITH A HUNDRED DOLLARS FINE. AND THEN WE WOULD ASK FOR THE COURT TO ORDER ABATEMENT AT THAT POINT. SO IT WOULD SORT OF MAKE THEM FIX IT. WE'RE GONNA START WITH A STANDARD NOTICE OF VIOLATION. HEY, SOMEONE CALLED, OR WE WERE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, WE NOTICED THAT YOUR POOL BARRIER IS NOT BEING MAINTAINED. PLEASE MAINTAIN IT. PUT IT BACK UP. YEAH. UM, IF PERMITS ARE NECESSARY, WE'LL LET THEM KNOW. IF THEY WERE A PERMIT REQUIRED TO INSTALL A NEW SECTION OF FENCE THAT HAD FALLEN SOMETHING OF THAT NATURE, WE WOULD ASK FOR THAT IN OUR CODE. DO WE SPECIFY THE BARRIER? IT'S NOT IN OUR CODE. NO. THE BARRIER IS BASED ON THE INTERNATIONAL SWIMMING POOL AND SPA CODE. MM-HMM . IS IT A FEDERAL CODE? IT'S A REFERENCE FROM THE VIRGINIA CONSTRUCTION CODE. MM-HMM . OKAY. ALRIGHT. THANK YOU. SURE. THANK YOU. OKAY. VERY GOOD. THANK YOU. OKAY. THANK YOU. SO, SO REAL, REAL QUICK. SO THIS SECTION HERE IN BLUE IS WHAT IS GONNA ALLOW YOU TO DO, UM, UM, THE INSPECTIONS PAST TWO YEARS WHERE IT SAYS SECTION 3 0 2 POINT ENCLOSURE SHALL APPLY THE BARRIERS AROUND EXISTENCE, SWIMMING POOLS, HOT TUBS, AND OR SPAS, THAT GIVES YOU, ADDING THAT VERBIAGE GIVES YOU THE ABILITY TO CONTINUE PAST TWO YEARS MAINTAINING THE YES. CORRECT. THAT'S SECTION OF THE BOARD HAS ALREADY GIVEN THE BUILDING OFFICIAL THE ABILITY TO ENFORCE THOSE SECTIONS THAT WERE ADOPTED OF THE PROPERTY MAINTENANCE CODE. SO THIS JUST ADDS TO THOSE SECTIONS. ALRIGHT. UNDER UNDERSTOOD. WHAT, WHAT WE'LL GET, GO WAIT TILL THE DISCUSSION. CAN CAN I GO? YEAH. UM, I'VE GOT TWO PEOPLE SIGNED UP TO SPEAK AT THIS. AT THE PUBLIC HEARING. I'M OPENING THE PUBLIC HEARING. THE FIRST ONE IS PAM PAU, AND YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THE VOLUNTEERS AND HOW WONDERFUL THEY ARE. BUT WHAT IS NOT NOTICED OR WAS NOT BROUGHT TO OUR ATTENTION WAS THE PEOPLE WHO DO THE ADOPT A HIGHWAY THROUGH VDOT. I'VE WALKED AN ORGANIZATION PENINSULA INDIVISIBLE, AND WE DO TWO MILES OF 1 34, 4 TIMES A YEAR. IT'D BE NICE IF THEY GOT A LITTLE BIT OF BENEFIT AS WELL. OKAY. PAM PAU ONE. KIMBERLY COURT. THANK YOU, . UM, I, I USED TO HAVE A SWIMMING POOL MANY, MANY YEARS AGO. WE HAD HURRICANE FALL AND DROPPED TWO TREES IN THERE AND DESTROYED EVERYTHING. SO WE YANKED OURS OUT. BY THE WAY, YOU DON'T NEED A PERMIT TO DO THAT, SO THE COUNTY JUST TAXED ME ON IT CONTINUALLY. I DIDN'T KNOW THAT FOR A WHILE. ANYWAY, UM, ON ONE SIDE, I HAVE A NEIGHBOR WHO, UH, OPENS HIS POOL EVERY YEAR. HE MAINTAINS IT. NOT A PROBLEM, BUT HE NEVER, NO, I CAN'T SAY NEVER. HE RARELY HAS HIS GATE LOCKED IS OPEN. AND ALSO HE HAS TWO BOARDS FROM A SIX FOOT FENCE THAT ARE MISSING. SO A SMALL CHILD COULD EASILY WALK THROUGH IT. THAT CONCERNS ME. BUT UP UNTIL DATE, I HAVE HAD NOBODY THAT GAVE A HOOT BESIDES ME. AND WE HAVE A LOT OF SMALL CHILDREN NOW IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD. AGAIN, ON THE OTHER SIDE OF ME, I HAVE A NEIGHBOR WHO HAS AN IN-GROUND POOL THAT HASN'T OPENED AT LEAST FIVE YEARS, MAYBE LONGER, AND HE HAS ONE OF THOSE TRAMPOLINE COVERS, BUT THEY'RE POROUS, WHICH MEANS MOSQUITOES CAN BREED. AND I WOULD LIKE TO SEE AS PART OF THE ORDINANCE SOMEWHERE ALONG THE LINE, THAT IF YOU HAVE A POOL THAT IS UNOPENED DURING THE SUMMER MONTHS, THAT YOU MUST KEEP MOSQUITO DUNKS AND PUT THEM INTO THE POOL OR THE COVER OF THE POOL. THAT CAN MEAN IF IT'S, UH, IMPERVIOUS WATER WILL COLLECT EVERY TIME IT RAINS. THEY ARE MOSQUITO BREEDING FACILITIES AND WE NEED TO ADDRESS THAT. MM-HMM . MY PROPERTY IS ONE HUMONGOUS MOSQUITO AND I FEED THEM REGULARLY WHEN I JUST GO TAKE MY GARBAGE OUT OR CHECK MY MAIL. I WOULD APPRECIATE IT IF YOU WOULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT THAT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. OKAY, THE NEXT PERSON I HAVE SIGNED UP IS CRYSTAL W WOLFE. HI CRYSTAL. HELLO, CRYSTAL WOLFE, UM, 2 0 1 CHAMPIONS PATH. AND I WOULD JUST LIKE TO SPEAK IN FAVOR. UM, I'M NEW RESIDENT OF YORK COUNTY, UM, AND I'M JUST ASKING YOU TO ADOPT THE LOCAL ENFORCEMENT TO, UM, BE ABLE TO FINE OR HOLD PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE FOR NOT FOLLOWING CODES. UM, JUST A LITTLE BIT OF BACKGROUND. I'M A MILITARY FAMILY, SO, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T ALWAYS GET TO LOOK INTO OUR PROPERTY PRIOR TO PURCHASING. SOMETIMES WE DO [02:55:01] AND OTHER TIMES WE DON'T. UM, I LIVE IN WOODS, A TAB, SO I MOVED INTO MY HOME. RIGHT BEHIND ME IS A BEAUTIFUL, MASSIVE IN-GROUND UNCOVERED UNFENCED POOL. UNFENCED. YES. SO A QUICK LOOK. GOOGLE MAP SEARCH. THERE'S ABOUT 20 HOUSES IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD THAT SURROUND THIS. SO WHILE I CAN'T TELL YOU HOW MANY CHILDREN TOTAL LIVE IN THE SURROUNDING, IT'S PROBABLY A GOOD BIT. UM, MY HOUSE, PERSONALLY, I HAVE THREE KIDS. UM, TWO, 3-YEAR-OLD AUTISTIC, NON-VERBAL BOYS. LOVE TO CLIMB, LOVE TO GET INTO ANYTHING THEY CAN. I ALSO HAVE A TYPICAL FIVE-YEAR-OLD. ALSO LOVES TO GET INTO ANYTHING HE CAN. MASSIVE RISK FOR ANYONE. UM, I CALLED, LUCKILY CALLED COREY. RIGHT WHEN I MOVED IN, I WAS LIKE, HEY, THIS POOL BEHIND ME. IT IS NOT FENCED. IF YOU LOOK AT THE EDGE OF MY PROPERTY, WHICH IS THANKFULLY FENCED WITH A FOUR FOOT FENCE, IT IS, I MEAN, STRAIGHT BEHIND MY HOUSE. LIKE I CAN SEE IT FROM MY DINING ROOM TABLE, THIS NICE POOL. UM, IT USED TO HAVE A FENCE. THE NEW OWNER DECIDED HE WANTED TO TAKE IT DOWN. IT DIDN'T FIT HIS AMBIANCE. HE PUT IN A NICE, BEAUTIFUL WATERFALL, GREAT, BUT NOW THERE IS NO COVER, NO FENCE. SO THEY DID COME OUT AND INSPECT, BUT THE NEXT DAY HE HAD A POP-UP TEMPORARY FENCE THERE, AND THAT IS NOW GONE AGAIN. SO, UM, I'M NOT SURE WHERE WE GO FROM THERE OTHER THAN COMING UP WITH SOME SORT OF ABILITY TO HOLD HIM ACCOUNTABLE. UM, I CAN SEND A PICTURE VIDEO EVERY SINGLE DAY SHOWING, HEY, THIS FENCE IS DOWN, DATE STAMP, WHATEVER ANYONE NEEDS. BUT, UM, AS A MOM, THIS IS MY WORST NIGHTMARE WITH MY KIDS AND I CAN ONLY DO SO MUCH, BUT I'M NOT PERFECT. SO I HAVE ALARMS AND WHATEVER I NEED, BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, SEEING A CHILD DROWN WOULD JUST BE A VERY BIG TRAGEDY IN MY OPINION. SO, UM, I REALLY HOPE THAT YOU PUSH THROUGH THIS ORDINANCE AND THANK YOU FOR CONSIDERATION. YEAH, THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THIS IS A VIOLATION. MM-HMM . IT IS, BUT RIGHT NOW NOTHING CAN BE DONE ABOUT IT UNTIL WE CHANGE THE ORDINANCE. WHAT? UNTIL WE CHANGE THE, CHANGE THE ORDINANCE. WE VOTE YES. WE'LL, WHICH WE'RE GETTING READY TO DO. OKAY. IS THERE ANY MORE DISCUSSION ON THE BOARD? IS THERE A, OUR, DOES OUR ORDINANCE THERE ANY FORM? WOULD THIS BE THE APPROPRIATE ORDINANCE TO, TO UH, ADDRESS THE MOSQUITO ISSUE AND MAINTENANCE OF, UH, OF A POOL? UH, I MEAN THAT TO ME IT'S PRETTY SERIOUS. WE DO THAT IS A SAME WELL, I KNOW, AWARE. DO WE, THE STAFF, EARL, DO WE ADDRESS ANY, HOW DO WE ADDRESS, UH, A POOL THAT'S BEING BECOME A MOSQUITO MOSQUITOES? OH, UH, WE HAVE A MOSQUITO ORDINANCE AND, UH, AND ANYONE CAN, CAN, CAN CALL OUR MOSQUITO CONTROL OFFICE AND THEY'LL COME OUT AND INSPECT IT AND TAKE ACTION. FIND TO MAKE SURE DO WHAT THEY FIND A PROBLEM. WHAT HAPPENS? UH, THEY WILL, MR. ASHWORTH . DO YOU KNOW, I, I TALKED TO MS. PULVER THIS MORNING, UH, BECAUSE MR. RONAN ASKED THIS QUESTION ALSO, AND SHE SAID THAT THEY WILL GO OUT AND CHECK ANY MOSQUITO ISSUE MM-HMM . AND THEY WILL TRY TO WORK WITH THE PROPERTY OWNER TO ALLEVIATE THOSE PROBLEMS. I DON'T KNOW IF THEY HAVE ANY ENFORCEABLE PIECES. MRS. NOEL? YES. MAY I INTERJECT HERE? I, AT MY TIME IN PUBLIC WORKS, I DID HAVE THE EXPERIENCE WHERE, AND OVERZEALOUS EMPLOYEE ADDED SOME DUNKS TO A SWIMMING POOL WITHOUT PERMISSION. OH. IT DAMAGED THE LINER AND THE COUNTY HAD TO PAY. OH. SO MY RECOMMENDATION TO US WOULD BE TO DO A LITTLE RESEARCH ON THIS BEFORE WE MAKE A DECISION. THAT'S A GOOD POINT OF VIOLATION. AND, AND HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE. YES, SIR. YOU'RE CORRECT, RIGHT? WE CAN CITE A VIOLATION. LET, LET'S DO IT THEN. YES, SIR. PRESENTS ALL THE HEALTH ISSUES AND YEAH, MR. ASHWORTH IS HERE AND, AND HE CAN, HE CAN WORK WITH THE PUBLIC WORK STAFF AND DO THE RESEARCH THAT WE NEED TO DO AND COME BACK WITH SOME SOLUTION FOR, FOR IT. OKAY. THANK YOU. IT IS NOT SOMETHING FOR THIS, BUT THERE MAY BE A DIFFERENT CHANGE IN KIND OF WORK. YEAH. THAT'S PART OF THE MOSQUITO CONTROL, RIGHT? THE, THE MOSQUITO ORDINANCE DOES SAY THAT YOU, YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO HAVE ANYTHING WHERE THERE'S A BREEDING GROUND THERE. I MEAN, THAT'S WHAT THE LANGUAGE SAYS. I, I LOOK, I, I HAD MY NEIGHBOR LOVES POTS, FLOWER POTS AND STUFF LIKE THAT. IT'S GOT THEIR LITTLE GARDEN AND I GO OUT THERE IN, BACK TO MY HOUSE AND I ENDED UP GETTING EATEN UP. SO I CALLED MOSQUITO CONTROL. THEY CAME OUT AND THEN THEY KIND OF, WITHOUT PERMISSION, WANDERED OVER INTO THE GUY'S PROPERTY, TURNED OVER A FEW POTS, WHICH COULD PROBABLY KILL A COUPLE MILLION MOSQUITOES. BUT THEN I WENT OVER LATER AND TOLD HIM, I SAID, UH, I CALLED HIM UP AND REALLY, AND I SAID, HEY, YOU MIND IF, IF COUNTY COMES OVER AND LOOKS FOR A MOSQUITO? AND THEY, HE GO, OH YEAH, GO AHEAD. LOOK WHEREVER YOU WANT. BUT I MEAN, I KIND OF WAS WORRIED ABOUT US GOING ON SOMEBODY'S PROPERTY DOING STUFF. SO I JUST WANT TO KNOW, DO IF WE HAVE THE STAFF, CAN YOU ADDRESS THIS? I MEAN, THERE SHOULD BE NO, NO MOSQUITO BREEDING GROUND AROUND HERE. A PURPOSE. THANK YOU ALL. OR, OR NEGLECT BEFORE WE MOVE FORWARD, I NEED [03:00:01] TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING, UNLESS ANYBODY ELSE WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK TO THIS ISSUE. SEE, NONE. I'VE CLOSED THE PUBLIC HEARING. LET'S MOVE FORWARD. I'LL ASK FOR A MOTION TO PROPOSE ORDINANCE 25 DASH 22. MADAM MADAM CHAIR, BEFORE YOU DO THAT, I HAVE A, I HAVE A VERY SMALL TYPOGRAPHICAL EDIT THAT I WOULD LIKE TO PROPOSE THAT I DIDN'T NOTICE PREVIOUSLY. AND IT'S, IT'S JUST VERY MINOR, BUT IT, IT'LL HELP WITH CLARITY. UM, ON PAGE TWO, FOUR LINES FROM THE BOTTOM AFTER LET, THERE IS A SEMICOLON, I WOULD JUST ASK THAT WE STRIKE THE, AND THERE AND MOVE IT TO, IN FRONT OF WHERE IT SAYS SECTION 3 0 3 0.2. WHERE OKAY. IF, IF, IF THE BOARD SOUNDS GOOD, DO WE HAVE TO HAVE AN R FOR THAT? NO. WELL, I DON'T. I MEAN, YES YOU DO, BUT IT'S, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S A, IT'S A DE MINIMUS SCRIVENER'S ERROR TYPE CHANGE. SO IS THAT TO A 25? THAT'S 25 DASH 22 R? YEP. YEAH. OKAY. I'LL MOVE IT. ALRIGHT. OKAY. ROLL CALL PLEASE. DISCUSSION. DISCUSSION. SO JUST A DISCUSSION. NEVER HAD ENOUGH DISCUSSION. EASY. THAT'S, WE, THAT'S WE GET PAID. I'M TEA. THAT'S WHAT WE GET PAID A BIG BUCKS. JUST, JUST REALLY JUST A COMMENT. I'M SURPRISED THAT THERE IS A SAFETY STANDARD THAT HAS A, UM, TERM LIMIT. I WOULD IMAGINE THAT ALL SAFETY STANDARDS WOULD BE IN PURITY. YEAH. SO I'D, I'D BE INTERESTED TO SEE IF THERE ARE ANY OTHER PLACES IN THE COUNTY CODE WHERE, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A SAFETY STANDARD FOR TWO YEARS, BUT AFTER THAT IT'S A FREE FOR ALL. SO WE PROBABLY NEED TO ADDRESS, IF WE FIND ANY, WE NEED TO ADDRESS THAT, ADDRESS THAT SOMEWHERE IN THE FUTURE TOO. SO IT'S JUST MY COMMENT. I CAN SPEAK TO THAT IF YOU'D LIKE. YEAH, IF YOU, YEAH, I WASN'T REALLY PART OF TONIGHT'S DISCUSSIONS. I DIDN'T WANNA PUT YOU ON THE SPOT, BUT NO, THAT'S OKAY. UM, SO THE, THE TWO YEAR LIMITATION IS AFTER A PERMIT IS COMPLETED, RIGHT? SO AFTER WE DO A FINAL INSPECTION THAT SUPPLIES TO ALL PERMITS. UM, THERE ARE A FEW AREAS OF THE PROPERTY MAINTENANCE CODE THAT WE ALREADY ENFORCE. UH, BUT IT'S REALLY, AS FAR AS PEOPLE'S PROPERTY AND, AND THE MAINTENANCE OF THAT PROPERTY, IT REALLY IS KIND OF LIMITED TO THE UNSAFE STRUCTURES PORTION. SO, AND THAT'S, WE HAVE TO ENFORCE THAT. THE OTHER PART OF IT THAT WE ALWAYS HAVE TO ENFORCE IS THE ELEVATORS. THE ELEVATORS HAVE TO BE MAINTAINED. YEAH. THOSE ARE THE ONLY TWO THAT WE DON'T HAVE A CHOICE. SO EVERY OTHER SECTION IN THE MAINTENANCE CODE OUTSIDE OF CHAPTER ONE IS UP TO YOU AS THE BOARD TO ALLOW FOR ME TO ENFORCE. SO THERE ARE A FEW THAT YOUR PREDECESSORS HAVE CHOSEN THAT WE USE. UM, I WOULD SAY I'VE NEVER USED ANY OF THE OTHER THAT ARE, THAT ARE IN THERE ASIDE FROM THE, UH, UNSAFE STRUCTURES CLAUSE. BUT THIS ONE WOULD BE ADDED TO THAT. OUTSIDE OF SWIMMING POOLS, I REALLY DON'T SEE, AND THE UNSAFE STRUCTURES THAT WE ALREADY HAVE, I REALLY DON'T SEE A REASON TO, UH, SORT OF BE BIG BROTHER FOR PEOPLE'S PROPERTY. WELL, AND, AND I AGREE WITH THAT TOO, BUT JUST BIG PICTURE ACROSS THE COUNTY, RIGHT. IF THERE ARE SOME SAFETY STANDARDS THAT SEEM TO HAVE A SUNSET CLAUSE, LET US KNOW. GIVE US A RECOMMENDATION SO WE CAN ADDRESS IT AS, AS OPPOSED TO AFTER THE FACT. RIGHT. WE'RE FIXING A PROBLEM. I MEAN, OUTSIDE OF UNSAFE STRUCTURE IS BASICALLY EVERYTHING EXPIRES AFTER TWO YEARS. THAT'S, THAT'S THE STATE CODE, RIGHT? CORRECT. YEAH. THAT'S A STATE CODE. WE'VE ALSO GOT MAINTENANCE. WE DON'T HAVE ANY CONTROL OF THAT. WE ASKED THEM FOR YOUR DISTRICT ALSO COMPLAINT DRIVEN. WELL, WE JUST ASKED A MAINTENANCE THING FOR YOUR DISTRICT ON HOUSES AND, RIGHT. YEAH. AND WE CAN STILL, THAT'S WHERE WE, THAT'S WHERE WE CAPTURE THAT IN THE MAINTENANCE CODE. SO WE'VE HAD THIS PROPERTY MAINTENANCE DISCUSSION BEFORE. I DON'T KNOW IF WE WANT TO GO DOWN THAT ROUTE OF HAVING TO DO PROPERTY MAINTENANCE, BUT WE CAN IF YOU WANT US TO LOOK AT IT. I MEAN, WE WE'RE OKAY, BUT THAT'S KIND OF WHAT NO, THAT'S NOT, THAT'S, THAT'S NOT WHAT I'M ASKING. BUT WE CAN, WE CAN LOOK AT SOME OF THE OTHER SECTIONS MAYBE THAT ARE KIND OF SIMILAR TO POOLS AND WELL, YEAH. THOSE KINDS OF THINGS. AGAIN, I WAS JUST SURPRISED TO, TO SEE IF THERE'S OTHER ONES. YEAH, THERE'S SOMETHING, AN OBVIOUS SAFETY MECHANISM SUCH AS MAKING SURE POOLS DON'T HAVE EASY ACCESS TO UNDERAGE KIDS. RIGHT. AT A SUNSET CLOSET TWO YEARS, BASICALLY. RIGHT. AND THAT'S WHY WE'RE FIXING IT. YES. SO, SO WE'RE FIXING THAT TONIGHT. SO I'M JUST ASKING, DOES ANYWHERE ELSE IN THE COUNTY CODE HAVE A SIMILAR SUNSET CLAUSE AND A SAFETY STANDARD? WE SHOULD PROBABLY ADDRESS THAT. WE CAN TAKE A LOOK AND EVALUATE. I'M JUST ASKING YOU. SURE. AND IF YOU DON'T AND IF YOU FIND IT LATER, LET US KNOW. OKAY. BUT THAT'S, YOU KNOW, WE COULD DO THAT GOT ME THINKING. I THINK THIS, THIS TO ME COULD FALL UNDER FIRE AND LIFE SAFETY. OKAY. YEAH. I MOVED I THE GIVES THEM EQUAL AUTHORITY TO OH, YOU'RE DOING DISCUSSION ANYWAY. THAT'S RIGHT. THAT'S ALL I HAD. OKAY. THANK YOU. SO MOVED. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, GENTLEMEN. ARE THERE ANY MORE COMMENTS BEFORE WE MOVE FORWARD? IF NOT, SO MOVE, ROLL CALL. A MOTION MADE BY MR. SHEPHERD IS TO ADOPT PROPOSED ORDINANCE NUMBER 25 DASH 22 R TO AMEND YORK COUNTY [03:05:01] CODES CHAPTER 7.1, BUILDING REGULATIONS TO INCORPORATE PROVISIONS CONCERNING THE MAINTENANCE OF POOL. ENCLOSURES. MR. DRURY? YES. MR. R? YES. MR. SHEPHERD? YES. MR. ROY? YES. YES. MRS. NOLL? YES. MOTION CARRIED. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. UH, ITEM [7. York County Code Changes. Consider adoption of proposed Ordinance Number 25-20 to amend Chapter 14 and Chapter 21 of the Code of York County. a. Memorandum from the County Administrator. b. Memorandum from the County Administrator dated August 7 from the Commissioner of the Revenue. c. Proposed Ordinance No. 25-20] NUMBER SEVEN IS THE YORK COUNTY CODE CHANGES IS SARAH WOODS. ARE YOU GOOD TO COME SPEAK WEBB, RATHER? I KNOW I'M GONNA, I KNOW. ALL RIGHTY. THANK YOU SO MUCH. UM, GOOD EVENING, MADAM CHAIR AND MEMBERS OF THE BOARD. UM, I'LL MAKE THIS QUICK. I HAVE A FEW, UM, CODE CHANGES TONIGHT. UM, MY NAME IS SARAH WEBB. I'M YOUR COMMISSIONER OF REVENUE. SO FIRST OFF, UM, JUST A QUICK OVERVIEW OF THIS EXCHANGES FOR TONIGHT. UM, TWO IN CHAPTER 14, WHICH IS COVERING LICENSES AND FOUR IN CHAPTER 21, WHICH COVERS TAXATION. UM, STARTING WITH CHAPTER 14. THE FIRST CHANGE IS SECTION 14 DASH THREE. WE'RE PROPOSING TO STRIKE SECTION H AS YOU SEE ON THE SCREEN. UH, THIS SECTION WAS ORIGINALLY MEANT TO ENSURE LICENSE ASSESSMENTS WERE SHARED WITH THE TREASURER'S OFFICE, UH, WITH OUR NEW TAX SOFTWARE SYSTEM. UH, BOTH MY OFFICE AND THE TREASURER'S OFFICE, UM, HAVE REAL TIME ACCESS TO THE RECORDS ELECTRONICALLY, MEANING PRINTING THEM AND PHYSICALLY HANDING THEM TO OVER TO HER, UM, WOULD BE REDUNDANT. UH, REMOVING THIS WOULD SAVE TIME AND PRINTING COSTS BECAUSE IT IS THOUSANDS OF PIECES OF PAPER, UH, TO BE PRINTED. MS. WEBB? YES. WHY IS THE LAST LINE OF THAT STRUCK OUT? THE TREASURER SHALL REPORT DELINQUENTS TO THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR IN THE, UM, IMAGE. IT'S A SCREENSHOT. IT DOESN'T ENCOMPASS THE WHOLE SECTION H BUT, UM, I CAN GET YOU THE EXACT LANGUAGE IF YOU'D LIKE, BUT, UM, THAT'S JUST A SCREENSHOT OF WHAT IS IN YOUR, UM, BOARD MEMO DOCUMENTS. WOULDN'T WE STILL WANT THE TREASURER TO MAKE A REPORT TO THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR ON DELINQUENT REPORTS? UH, YOU COULD DO THAT. UH, THE ONLY SECTION THAT WE'RE I'M LOOKING TO, UM, TAKE OUT IS THE PHYSICALLY PRINTING AND HANDING OVER. BUT IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO AMEND THAT, I DON'T KNOW IF RICHARD WE'RE ABLE TO DO THAT, BUT MY COPY SHOWS IT STRUCK OUT. THAT'S WHY I'M REACTING. YES, IT UH, WE CAN DO THAT. UM, IF YOU, IF HE REQUESTS IT, OF COURSE IT CAN BE DONE. THIS JUST WOULD TAKE OUT THE REQUIREMENT OF LIKE AN ANNUAL, UM, DELIVERY OF THAT REPORT. YEAH, I I THINK HE CORRECT WITH THE PRINTING. I THINK, I THINK YOU THAT'S A VALID POINT. YEAH, I THINK IT WAS, WELL I THINK IT WAS THROUGH WHY. YEAH, WHY, WHY? STRIKE THAT. THE QUESTION IS, WHY IS IT OUT? UM, SOME OF THE, UH, REQUIREMENTS THAT ARE IN THE YORK COUNTY CODE, UH, ARE REDUNDANT WITH, UH, WITH THE VIRGINIA STATE CODE IS JUST BECAUSE IT SAYS, UM, IN THE VIRGINIA CODE. JUST 'CAUSE IT DOESN'T SAY IN THE YORK COUNTY CODE DOES NOT MEAN THAT IT'S NOT A REQUIREMENT THAT WE'RE MEETING IN THE VIRGINIA CODE. SO ARE YOU SAYING YOU'RE MEETING IT AT THE VIRGINIA CODE? YES. THIS, IF YOU TAKE THIS OUT, YOU, WE'D STILL HAVE TO DO IT. IT JUST WOULDN'T BE STATED IN THE YEAH, THERE, THERE, THE REQUIREMENT EXISTS ELSEWHERE. BUT I THINK MR. ROY'S POINT IS, IS A CORRECT ONE THAT WHEN THIS WAS DRAFTED IT JUST, I WENT TOO FAR AND DIDN'T AND STRUCK THAT PART. SO THAT'S, THAT WOULD BE A VAL THAT WOULD BE A PROPER AMENDMENT TO JUST HAVE THE RED LINE END BEFORE THE TREASURER, CORRECT? YEAH. LEAVE THE TREASURER SHALL REPORT DELINQUENT TO THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR. OKAY. YEP. PERFECT. PLEASE CONTINUE. OKAY. ALRIGHT. THE NEXT SECTION IS SECTION 14 DASH 27. UM, SO THIS NEXT CHANGE IS A TWO PART CHANGE, UH, WITH PROPOSED CHANGES FOR LICENSE SECTION, UH, 1427 TO ADD A NEW CLASSIFICATION FOR AIRCRAFT TAXATION AND CHANGE WITHIN THE TAXATION CHAPTER 27, UH, DASH 7.1. FOR THE ADDITION OF A GENERAL BUSINESS PROVISION, WE'RE ADDING A CLASS STATION FOR CPLAN AND SIGHTSEEING TOUR OPERATIONS, AS WELL AS THE GENERAL CLASSIFICATION TO ALLOW, UM, TO ENCOMPASS FOR FUTURE BUSINESS ACTIVITY THAT MAY NOT FIT THE CURRENT, UM, CATEGORIES WE HAVE LISTED. ON THE TAXATION SIDE, THE AIRCRAFT CLASSIFICATION WOULD MEAN WE CAN ASSESS, UM, THE ASSETS IN ACCORDANCE WITH STATE LAW AND [03:10:01] ALLOW THEM TO SEPARATE FROM PERSONAL PROPERTY CATEGORIES. OTHERWISE THEY COULD BE LUMPED INTO PERSONAL PROPERTY TAXATION CLASS. UM, AND BECAUSE IT DOESN'T QUALIFY FOR THE SAME, UH, TAX RELIEF THAT PASSENGER VEHICLES DO, IT WOULD BE A MUCH HIGHER RATE THAN MAYBE WE WOULD RECOMMEND, UH, BASED ON THAT RATE. UM, AND BASED ON THE RATE OF OTHER LOCALITIES, I WOULD RECOMMEND A RATE OF 50 CENTS PER A HUNDRED DOLLARS IN ASSESSED VALUE. UM, BUT IT'S UP TO YOUR DISCRETION AS THE BOARD TO VOTE AS YOU SEE FIT. WHAT IS IT NOW? WE DON'T HAVE ANY, UH, WE DON'T HAVE ANY. YEP. SO IT MAY, UM, SOME, SOME LOCALITIES DEFAULT TO THEIR PERSONAL PROPERTY, SO IT WOULD BE $4, UM, VERSUS, UM, SOME LOCALITIES DO, UH, A LOWER RATE, UM, 50. UH, THE LOWEST ONE IN THE, UM, IN VIRGINIA IS 10 CENTS. AND THAT'S IN THE SOUTHWESTERN PART OF THE STATE, BUT A MAJORITY OF THEM ARE IN THE 50 CENT RANGE. SO THAT'S HOW YOU'D NECESSARILY, YOU'D DERIVE THE 50% RECOMMENDATION, THE 50 CENT RECOMMENDATION? YES. BASED. OKAY. BASED ON OUR NEIGHBORS. IN NEWPORT NEWS, THEY HAVE A 50 CENT AS WELL. UM, BUT IN WILLIAMSBURG THEY USE THEIR PERSONAL PROPERTY GRADE, SO JUST USING A, A LOWER RATE THAN OUR NEIGHBORS WOULD BRING IT INTO OUR COUNTY IF THEY'RE, IF IT'S BETWEEN TWO LOCALITIES, SO. OKAY. OKAY. AND THE, THE NEXT CHANGE YES. UM, IS SECTION 21 DASH 7.3 OF THE TAXATION CHAPTER, AND IT DEALS WITH ADMINISTRATIVE REFUNDS. THIS WOULD AFFECT ALL OF EARNEST TAX REFUNDS, BUT IN MAJORITY OF CASES, THIS IS IN RELATION TO THE REAL ESTATE, UH, RELIEF REFUNDS FOR VETERANS. THIS CODE CHANGE WOULD AUTHORIZE A QUICKER, MORE STREAMLINED PROCESS FOR ISSUING REFUNDS TO QUALIFYING VETERANS BY INCREASING THE REFUND CAP FROM $5,000 TO 10,000. IT DOESN'T CHANGE THE AMOUNT OF MONEY, JUST THE AMOUNT THAT WOULD COME TO YOU AS THE BOARD ON THE CONTENT CALENDAR OR CONSENT CALENDAR. MM-HMM . AND IN SECTION 21 DASH 42, WE'RE RECOMMENDING STRIKING BOTH SECTION 42 AND THE CORRESPONDING CHART. ANY QUESTIONS FROM THE BOARD? SO NOT SO FAR MM-HMM. NOT SO FAR. I DO IN THE NEXT SECTION. THAT'S A FAR OKAY. UM, THE EFFECTIVE DATE FOR THE PROVISION HAS EXPIRED IN THIS, IN THIS SLIDE HERE IN THE OLD HOUSING CHART IT REFERENCED HAS ALREADY BEEN UPDATED ON, UM, THE HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENTS WEBSITE. REMOVING IT. WE'LL JUST KEEP OUR INFORMATION UP TO DATE. UM, SO IT'S NOT REFERENCED AS, AS OLD INFORMATION. AND THE LAST CHANGE IS, UM, FINALLY SECTION 21 DASH 92 THROUGH, UH, 21 DASH 1 0 1. WE'RE CLARIFYING LANGUAGE RELATED TO THE TRANSIENT OCCU OCCUPANCY TAX, UM, SOMETIMES REFERRED, REFERRED TO TO THE TOTX TAX, UH, TO MIRROR THIS NEW STATE CODE, UH, LANGUAGE FROM HOUSE BILL 2383. THERE'S PASSED THIS THIS YEAR. UH, THIS ALLOWS OUR, ALIGNS OUR COUNTY CODE WITH UPDATED STATE LEVEL REQUIREMENTS AND ADD TO NEW PROVISIONS TO IMPROVE ADMINISTRATION AND COMPLIANCE. UM, THIS, THIS SCREENSHOT IS ONLY ONE SECTION. UM, IT, I COULDN'T FIT THE WHOLE THING ON JUST ONE SLIDE, BUT THIS IS JUST FOR YOUR REFERENCE. UM, IT HAS TO DO WITH, UM, REMITTANCE OF TAX FROM THE THIRD PARTY INTERMEDIARIES, COLLECTION OF TAXES AND THE REPORTING REQUIREMENTS. UM, AND IT'S IN YOUR RED LINES IN THE MOR UH, THE MEMO, UH, THAT YOU'VE RECEIVED MM-HMM . UM, WITH THAT. UM, AND HAPPY, HAPPY TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS. ONE DASH 97 SARAH. SURE. WHY DOES IT, AND IN BOTH A AND B IT SAYS, NO PEN PENALTY SHALL EXCEED THE AMOUNT OF THE TAX OWED. WHY THAT MEANS NO INTEREST OR, OR NO PENALTY CAN BE ADDED BECAUSE THEY DON'T OWE ANYTHING MORE THAN WHAT THE TAXES IN THE, UM, IN THE ADMINISTRATIVE REFUND SECTION. MM-HMM . IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT IN 21 DASH 9 7 9 7 9 7? I JUST DISAGREE WITH THE LAST LINE IN BOTH, UH, BOTH STATEMENTS. A AND DI SEE, I SEE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. MM-HMM . UM, I DON'T, THAT'S WHAT'S IN THE EXISTING CODE. I IT'S WRONG. THEY COULD BE. THAT'S WHY I DISAGREE. THIS IS WHERE PEOPLE JUST NOT PAY THEIR TAXES AND PUSH IT DOWN THE ROAD BECAUSE THERE'S NO PENALTY. THERE'S NO PENALTY. NOTHING. LIKE IF I, YOU CAN'T ENFORCE A PENALTY BECAUSE OWE $500 IN TAXES AND I'M NOT GETTING PENALIZED MM-HMM . WHY WOULD I PAY THE TAXES? YES SIR. THAT COULD BE, THAT COULD BE CHANGED IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO ADD THAT. SO CAN WE, CAN WE MAKE THAT AN AMENDMENT TO, WHAT ARE YOU GONNA AMEND IT TO? UH, JUST TO RE REMOVE, REMOVE THAT LAST LINE, BUT OKAY. BUT IS THERE A PENALTY? BUT YOU'D PUT SOME KIND OF, SOME KIND OF PENALTY. HAVE SOME PENALTY. IT ALREADY DESCRIBES THE PENALTY AND THE RATE PER ANNUM ON INTEREST. BUT, BUT THE PROBLEM WITH THAT LAST LINE IS YOU'RE CAPPED AT WHATEVER THE TAX IS RIGHT HERE. YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT. JUST DELETE THAT LAST NO SUCH PENALTY SHALL WHAT YOU WANNA DO AWAY WITH. YEAH. THE LAST SENTENCE ON SHOULDN'T BE A AND B AND JUST STRIKE THROUGH THAT. YEAH, I REMEMBER WHEN THAT WAS PUT IN THERE. I OKAY. THAT THAT'S, I'M, I CAN LOOK IT UP, BUT I'M ALMOST POSITIVE THIS IS REQUIRED BY THAT THIS IS A LIMITATION IMPOSED UPON US BY STATE LAW. STATE ACCOUNT AND IT ONLY, IT APPLIES TO THE PENALTY AND INTEREST PORTION, NOT THE TAX PORTION. SO YOU COLLECT THE TAX AND A PENALTY ON TOP OF THE TAX, WHICH CANNOT EXCEED. SO IF, IF THE AMOUNT OF TAX YOU OWE IS $4,000, THE AMOUNT OF YOUR PENALTY CAN'T BE MORE THAN, [03:15:01] CAN'T BE MORE THAN $4,000 PENALTY. SO IT COULD BE $8,000 TOTAL. YEAH. OKAY. THAT'S WHAT I THAT MAKES SENSE. YOU UNDERSTAND THAT. OH, I SEE. YEAH. IT SAYS THE PENALTY, JUST THE PENALTY CANNOT EXCEED, CAN'T EXCEED THE MAXIMUM TAX. SO IF NOT $500 PENALTY CAN'T BE MORE THAN TO PAY THE UNDERPAYMENT PLUS PENALTY. OH, I CAN ARGUE THAT THE PENALTY IS HAVING TO PAY THE TAX . THAT'S WHY I'M STRUGGLING. NO, NOT NO, NO. IT JUST SAYING IT CAN'T EXCEED IT. IT CAN'T EXCEED THAT. RIGHT. CAN'T. BUT WHAT YOU WANNA AVOID IS SOMEBODY WHO'S $5 A TAX AND YOU CHARGE A $50,000 PENALTY. PENALTY IS MOST DEFINITELY AND LEGALLY DISTINCT FROM THE AMOUNT OF THE TAX. ALRIGHT. YEAH. OKAY THEN I, I WITHDRAW THAT. ARE YOU ALL SET WITH THAT? ALRIGHT, ON THE NEXT PAGE, UM, AGAIN, THE LAST SECTION, I GUESS IT'S 21 DASH 98, THE LAST LINE. YOU KNOW, IF THERE IS ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS, FOR INSTANCE, THE COST OF CERTIFIED MAIL OR IF THERE'S LEGAL COSTS, THEN I THINK THOSE SHOULD BE ALLOWABLE AND, AND THEY'RE NOT INCLUDED IN THIS LIST. SO ADMINISTRATIVE AND LEGAL COSTS. I WOULD ADD TO IS THIS A, IS THIS UH, A PART OF THEIR PRO UH, HER PROPOSED CHANGES OR IS THIS SOMETHING SOMETHING? HE'S ALREADY IN THERE. IT'S ALREADY THERE. I TELL YOU UNLESS WE KNOW FOR A FACT MM-HMM . THAT WHAT WE'RE DOING, WE CAN DO, AND IT'S NOT PART OF THE STATE CODE, I WOULDN'T CHANGE IT. NOW YOU COME BACK AND TELL US IF IT'S A, YOU RAISE THE ISSUE AND IF WE GO BACK, YOU DO RESEARCH, YOU FIND IT'S PART OF THE STATE CODE, THEN, THEN, UH, THEN WE'RE STUFFED. IT'S A MOOD ISSUE. OKAY. SO IT'S ALL GO CHANGE STUFF. WE WE'RE NOT HUNDRED PERCENT SURE. LET'S TAKE A, TAKE AWAY A FOLLOW UP ON THAT PARTICULAR MINE AND IF WE NEED TO CHANGE IT. BUT WHAT I'M ASKING IS THAT ALL THE COSTS THAT THE COUNTY BEAR BE CHARGEABLE, CERTAINLY WE CAN, WE CAN LOOK ANY CHANGES YOU HAVE, WE CAN LOOK INTO, UM, AND BRING IT BACK IF, IF THAT'S, UM, THE PLEASURE OF THE BOARD. UM, BUT WE, ALL OF THESE CHANGES FOR TRANSIT OCCUPANCY ARE IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE COMMISSIONER OF REVENUE ASSOCIATION AND THE VIRGINIA TAX CODE. UM, ANYTHING NOT TOUCHED? UH, I WOULD HAVE TO LOOK INTO, BUT, UM, THIS WAS ALL DONE BY A, UM, STUDY FROM OUR COMMITTEE'S IN THE COMMISSIONER OF REVENUE ASSOCIATION. OKAY. THAT MAY BE UNDERSTAND, THAT MAY BE STATE JUST BEING ABLE TO ANSWER HIS QUESTION. OKAY. IF THAT'S IN THERE BECAUSE OF STATE CODE, TELL US IT'S PART OF THE STATE CODE, UNLESS YOU CAN TELL US RIGHT NOW. IT'S PART OF THE STATE CODE. IS IT? I I DON'T BELIEVE, I BELIEVE IT'S IN ACCORDANCE WITH STATE CODE FOR FACTS. FACTS. I WILL, I WILL CERTAINLY SEE IF, IF IT'S WHAT PORTION PORTION ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT MR. ROY? WHAT SECOND? IT'S 21 DASH 98 AND IT'S THE LAST LINE AND IT JUST SAYS THE, UM, INTEREST PENALTY AND THE PENALTY SHALL INCLUDE, UH, INTEREST PEN, INTEREST AND PENALTY. BUT IT SHOULD ALSO INCLUDE ANY LEGAL COSTS THAT WE'VE INCURRED AND ANY ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS. SO IN THE, IN THIS EXAMPLE IT SAYS CERTIFIED MAIL. WELL, WHO'S PAYING FOR THAT? SHOULD BE THE, SHOULD BE THE DELINQUENT PARTY. SO, RIGHT. SO BASICALLY, SO LET'S TAKE IT AWAY AND ASK AND FOLLOW UP ON STATE CODE AND WHETHER OR NOT WE'RE ALLOWED TO ADD THOSE PROVISIONS IN MM-HMM . AND BRING IT BACK IF NECESSARY. AND I'LL, I WON'T ASK FOR AN ORDINANCE CHANGE OR A REVISION TONIGHT, BUT I WILL ASK FOR THE FOLLOW UP. OKAY. YES SIR. SO, SO, SO WE'LL MOVING, WE'LL VOTE ON THIS TONIGHT AND THEN YOU'LL COME BACK WITH AN ANSWER TO HIS QUESTION TO IF NEED BE AND WE'LL AMEND WHAT WE'VE ALREADY DONE. OR ARE WE GONNA TABLE IT? DO YOU WANT NO, WE DON'T HAVE TABLE. WE DON'T HAVE, WE DON'T HAVE TO TABLE IT. THAT'S MORE WHAT WE DON'T HAVE TO TABLE IT. WE DON'T HAVE TO TABLE IT BECAUSE WE CAN VOTE ON WHAT'S HERE. YES. AND IF, AND THEN IF SHE SEES THE ABILITY TO ADD IT, THEN THAT'LL JUST BE ANOTHER, UM, ORDINANCE EXCHANGE LATER ON. SO YES. RIGHT. THAT'S FINE. YEP. YES. I MOVE THE DEFAULT THING HERE. UH, DOUG IS ALL, YOU GOTTA REMEMBER THAT IN OUR ORDINANCES, THE STAFF HAS ALWAYS BEEN PRETTY GOOD ABOUT THIS. WE DON'T PUT STUFF IN THERE THAT WE'RE NOT ALLOWED TO DO. 'CAUSE IT'S 'CAUSE OF THE DYLAN RULE. OKAY. SO UNLESS WE'RE JUST KIND OF FEELING RICH OR SOMETHING, AND THEN WHEN SOMEBODY'S JUST BRAIN DRIVES UP ON 'EM AND THEY JUST SLIP SOME STUFF BY US, THEN, THEN, UH, THAT'S, THAT WOULD BE VERY, VERY UNUSUAL. SO MY POINT IS, AGAIN, WE'VE RAISED THE ISSUE. LOOK AT IT. TELL US, COME JUST SIMPLY SEND US A TEXT OR TELL THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR THAT THIS IS PART OF THE STATE CODE. OKAY. IT REFLECTS THE STATE CODE. IF IT'S JUST A, IF THE STATE CODE JUST GIVES US AN OPTION TO DO IT OR NOT DO IT, TELL US THAT ALSO AND THEN WE CAN DISCUSS IT AT THAT POINT. OKAY. BUT IN THE MEANTIME, WE SHOULD MOVE THIS ORDINANCE. YES. ALRIGHT. SO WHO'S GONNA MOVE THE ORDINANCE? I'LL MOVE 25, 20. KNOW DON'T WE HAVE TO CALL ON OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING OPEN. DO WE HAVE ANY COMMENTS? HEARING OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING. PUBLIC HEARING HERE. I'LL SEE ANYBODY TO SPEAK. I OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING AND ANYBODY CARES TO SPEAK TO THIS ISSUE. SEE NO ONE. [03:20:01] I WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. WHAT IS THE PLEASURE OF THE BOARD? WE'LL MOVE 25 DASH 20 R. UM, NO, WE'RE NOT MAKING A CHANGE. NO, WE WE DID. THAT'S ANOTHER CHANGE. OH, THAT'S RIGHT. YEAH. R RECOMMENDATION. THAT'S RIGHT. WE THAT STRIKE THAT LINE OUT. R STRIKE. STRIKE THAT ONE LINE. SO YES. R THAT'S CORRECT. I'LL R MOVE 25 DASH 20 R. CORRECT. THE MOTION MADE BY MR. ARONE IS TO ADOPT PROPOSED ORDINANCE NUMBER 25 DASH 20 R TO AMEND CHAPTER 14 AND CHAPTER 21 AND THE CODE OF YORK COUNTY. AND TO KEEP THE SENATE STATING, THE TREASURER SHALL REPORT ANY DELINQUENTS TO THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR. MR. ROH? YES. MR. SHEPHERD? YES. MR. ROY? YES. MR. DREWRY? YES. MRS. NOLL? YES. MOTION CARRIED? YES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. NOW [CONSENT CALENDAR] WE'LL MOVE TO THE CONSENT CALENDAR. UH, NUMBER EIGHT IS THE APPROVAL OF MINUTES. NUMBER NINE IS THE APPLICATION OF PROPOSED RESOLUTION R 25 1 35 TO AMEND PREVIOUSLY APPROVED SPECIAL USE PERMIT BY AUTHORIZING A MINOR EXPANSION OF A STORAGE SHED. SALES AND DISPLAY FACILITY ON PROPERTY LOCATED AT 65 39 MOTOWN ROAD. UH, NUMBER 10 IS APPROVAL OF MUTUAL AID AGREEMENT. CONSIDER THE ADOPTION OF PROPOSED RESOLUTION R 25 DASH 33 TO EXECUTE MUTUAL AID AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE COUNTY AND THE ARMED FORCES EXPERIMENTAL TRAINING. ACTIVITY NUMBER 11 IS ACCEPTANCE AND APPROPRIATION OF STORMWATER LEGAL ASSISTANCE. FUND THAT FOR GRANT NUMBER 25 DASH SIX BRIGHTWOOD STREAM RESTORATION PROJECT. UM, NUMBER 12 IS ACCEPTANCE AND APPROPRIATION OF FY 26 PSAP AND G NINE 11 ADDITIONAL FUNDING GRANT PROGRAM. UH, 13 IS REQUEST FOR REFUND FOR REAL ESTATE TAXES, UH, FROM DISABLED VETERANS. AND THAT'S IT. IS THERE ANY ITEM THAT ANYBODY WOULD LIKE TO DISCUSS? PLEASE? NO. IF NOT, I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO APPROVE. SO MOVED. YEAH. THANK YOU BOTH VOTE. CALL THE ROLL PLEASE. THE MOTION MADE BY MR. HURO IS TO APPROVE THE CONSENT CALENDAR AS SUBMITTED. MR. SHEPHERD? YES. MR. HURO? YES. MR. DREWRY? YES. MR. ROH? YES. MRS. KNOLL? YES. MOTION CARRIED. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. UH, THERE'S NO [CLOSED MEETING] NEW BUSINESS, BUT WE ARE GOING INTO CLOSE SESSION. PLEASE TAKE US THERE, UH, IN ACCORDANCE WITH SECTION, UH, 2.2 3 7 3 7 1 1 A, ONE OF THE CODE OF VIRGINIA. I MOVE THAT THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS CONVENE ENCLOSED MEETING TO CONSIDER A PERSONNEL MATTER INVOLVING THE APPOINTMENT OF INDIVIDUALS TO BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS. AND SECONDLY, UH, PROSPECTIVE BUSINESS OR INDUSTRY OR EXPANSIONS OF EXISTING BUSINESS OR INDUSTRY IN ACCORDANCE WITH SECTION 2 2 3 7 1 1 A FIVE OF THE CODE OF VIRGINIA. I MOVE TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS CONVENE ENCLO MEETING TO DISCUSS A PROSPECTIVE BUSINESS OR INDUSTRY OR EXPANSION OF AN EXISTING BUSINESS OR INDUSTRY WHERE NO PREVIOUS ANNOUNCEMENT HAS BEEN MADE. OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. WE WILL ADJOURN. THE NEXT REGULAR MEETING OF THE YORK COUNTY BOARD OF SUPERVISORS WILL BE HELD AT SIX O'CLOCK TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 2ND, 2025. I NEED A ROLL CALL. YEAH, A ROLL CALL. YEAH. SORRY. ROLL CALL . MR. HORO? YES. MR. DREWRY? YES. MR. ROH? YES. MR. SHEPHERD? YEP. MRS. NOLL? YES. MOTION CARRIED. THANK YOU SO MUCH. STAFF. NOW YOU CAN CLOSE. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.